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 Post subject: The Future of Gemscopes? NOT
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:45 am 
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"gemological microscope".

besides the price, please someone smarter than me would explain the usefulness of a tilting base fitted to a pod like that? :shock: :?:

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 Post subject: Re: Where things are going along with LED illumination
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:40 am 
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Alberto wrote:
from the same vendor, "gemological microscope".

besides the price, please someone smarter than me would explain the usefulness of a tilting base fitted to a pod like that? :shock: :?:


Um... Alberto? You're pretty damn smart. You could be waiting a while.

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 Post subject: Re: Where things are going along with LED illumination
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:13 pm 
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Lisa Elser wrote:
Um... Alberto? You're pretty damn smart. You could be waiting a while.


Thank you Lisa, but i really hope someone could explain me that nonsense........sooner or later..... :lol:
ciao
alberto

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 Post subject: Re: Where things are going along with LED illumination
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:23 am 
Alberto wrote:
Lisa Elser wrote:
Um... Alberto? You're pretty damn smart. You could be waiting a while.


Thank you Lisa, but i really hope someone could explain me that nonsense........sooner or later..... :lol:
ciao
alberto


I'll try. (Sucker!) :lol:

In British terminology, it's what is known as a 'sawn-off abortion'. This is a process in which parts of two (or more) otherwise satisfactory systems are joined together in an unsatisfactory manner to meet some purpose for which neither/none of the contributory parts are best suited. The British have a 50-year habit of building their military aircraft in this manner in an attempt to save money.

With particular regard to this expensively-priced microscope system, the wish is make a scope of unknown (to me) quality appeal to the gemmological market by sawing off the microscope pod, its integrated horizontal housing and the vertical support with its integral focussing arrangement. In place of the original base and stage, a 'gemmological' type of base, stage and vertical column tilt, that are deservedly popular for serious gemmological studies has been procured. The vertical columns coming with these bases have been sawn off just above the tilting hinge and below the rack and pinion focussing mechanism.

Now the full nastiness of this modification can be revealed. So the objective lens in the pod can be centred directly over the lightwell aperture fitted in the stage, the two sawn-through vertical columns cannot be simply welded one to the other but, rather, the focussing vertical must be off-set by maybe about 10 cm, laterally away from the base and in line with the lightwell aperture, to bring the optics and lightwell into approximate axial alignment. This off-set is achieved by screwing/welding a metal plate of about 15x5x1cm to the stump of the lower sawn-off vertical at one end of the plate and to the upper sawn-off vertical at the other end and on the opposite side. This is inherently a nasty, cheap and weak modification.

But we are not finished...... to obtain the essential offset in what should be a rigid vertical column, the head has had to be joined to the plate in a 'back-to-front' position. This means that, if the handy tilt mechanism were ever to be used, the eye pieces will rise away from the user's face rather than dropping neatly to align with his natural eye position when comfortably seated.

The first-year machinist's apprentice who designed this sawn-off abortion should be sacked. Not only is the design inherently bad but it will lose the owner money and reputation.

The above explains the relevance of the term 'sawn-off' but not (yet) of 'abortion'. The abortion of this product will occur through a total lack of savvy buyers and (hopefully) in a welter of returned goods and threatened law suits when the few unsavvy purchasers find how badly they have been conned. This system is not fit for purpose. To offer it for sale seems an offence under the UK 'Sale of Goods' Act and also similar laws in many other countries.

Edit 23/08/11:

To complete the picture gallery of microscopes discussed here, here's a re-compilation as JPEG of the re-seller's image of their BLM800 microscope:
Attachment:
Futurescope_ques (0).JPG
Futurescope_ques (0).JPG [ 39.56 KiB | Viewed 2451 times ]


Last edited by Kerensky on Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Future of Gemscopes? NOT
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:37 pm 
It seems that this story has further to run.

Though the manufacturer would seem to be Chinese, the (exclusive?) retail outlet is Canadian. This awful item, offered at USD 11K, failed to sell, there being only a bid - also Canadian surprise, surprise! - of USD 5K. The same system is now on 'Buy it now' at USD 4K from the same re-seller. At which price this system is still is appallingly over-priced. Assuming that the the optical system is good (N.B. This is no more than an assumption), the system might be a reasonable buy at USD 400. At that price, there would be headroom to rectify the awful mechanical modification present in the 'as sold' equipment and turn out a decent 'scope with small change from an end-price budget of around USD 1400.

However, the reseller offers no worthwhile specifications of the optical quality and one would therefore be 'buying a pig in a poke' from a party already known to be willing wickedly to con prospective purchasers. As an example of this, their current blurb states:
'1. Offering crisp sharp and high resolution image with high bright LED point light, dark field illumination and fluorescent light source. It is a high level professional gemological microscope.
2. Designing with very good idea can greatly improve the working efficiency, it is also easy to operate and makes operators feel more comfortable.'

From the use of English, this seems more likely to have been authored by a Chinese than a Canadian. 2. is of particular interest, since the idiot (of any nationality and mother-tongue) that wrote it clearly does not understand the principle of a tilting stage microscope and how this particular sawn-off abortion must fail to deliver usefully that facility.

Finally, mention should now be made of the integrated camera and LCD display sub-system that is such a visually dominating feature of this particular system. Though I may be mistaken, from the controls illustrated and the specs, I do suspect that this is an adaptation of the Chinese-made MDC 2000 eye-piece camera with manual controls that I presently use and paid USD 250 for as a personal import from a Chinese reseller.

As those who see the occasional pics I post here can see, this is not a useless camera when used with care but it can fairly be described as 'entry-level'. It has no place being fully-integrated into a 'high-level' gemmological optical system. In my case, it is the only gemmological equipment purchase l made (at the outset of taking up gemmology) that I now feel the need to sell-on and replace in due course - which I can do since it not integrated into my very nice (and Chinese-made) microscope. This upgrade is not a priority for me since - despite the way that the camera display dominates the appearance of this system - a better camera does not help one see more or understand better. Rather, the camera sub-system is simply a means of storing and sharing information. In my case, that replacement can be easily made with a s/h DSLR system and ancillaries costing about USD 1600 (there are no free lunches! :) ).

On balance and at any price at all, there are better gemmological microscope systems available for less money than this 'sawn-off abortion' can ever represent.


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 Post subject: Re: The Future of Gemscopes? NOT
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:06 am 
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around one month ago i decided to send a note to the seller via ebay:

morning, please take this as a free advice from a professional gemologist: no one serious professional would buy your scope with that base setup, the tilting feature of the base is useless as showed in the picture.
best regards.

alberto scarani


got the reply below 10 days later:

Dear Alberto:

Thanks for your time to write to us and particularly giving a great advise. We do sincerely appreciate that. I would appreciate it if you could kindly pass me your contact info to talk more or spend little bit time to advise us your expectations from an ideal scope for your/gemology application.

With warmest regards,
Younes


just forgot to reply to that, maybe i could send him the GO link.... :wink:
ciao
alberto

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 Post subject: Re: The Future of Gemscopes? NOT
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:38 am 
Alberto wrote:
around one month ago i decided to send a note to the seller via ebay:

morning, please take this as a free advice from a professional gemologist: no one serious professional would buy your scope with that base setup, the tilting feature of the base is useless as showed in the picture.
best regards.

alberto scarani


got the reply below 10 days later:

Dear Alberto:

Thanks for your time to write to us and particularly giving a great advise. We do sincerely appreciate that. I would appreciate it if you could kindly pass me your contact info to talk more or spend little bit time to advise us your expectations from an ideal scope for your/gemology application.

With warmest regards,
Younes


just forgot to reply to that, maybe i could send him the GO link.... :wink:
ciao
alberto


Why not? That and a recommendation that the re-seller actually takes it out of it's box, sits down with it and tries to use the tilt mechanism - at which point the GO words should seem no longer harsh, as the god-awful and misbegotten nature of the mechanical modification becomes plain - even to someone unfamiliar with microscopes.

As regards improving the design,and putting the lousy modification to one side, The main feature of this system is its fully integrated camera. In any event, I'd say that, other than for a beginner with quite limited expectations, this approach is a mistake since it prevents all choice in camera selection - and we do not all have the same requirements and expectations. Were the camera that is integrated be of the very best quality, this might not matter too much but - from their own specs - it is simply is not a top-quality sub-system.

Trying to think how to improve this system puts me in mind of an (English) joke:
A visitor to Ireland stopped an Irishman on the road to ask for directions to Tipperary. The Irishman scratched his chin, shook his head and replied, "Well, if I wanted to go to Tipperary, I wouldn't start from here!" .


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 Post subject: Re: The Future of Gemscopes? NOT
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:55 am 
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Kerensky wrote:
Why not?


link sent 8) , we'll see.......


Quote:
A visitor to Ireland stopped an Irishman on the road to ask for directions to Tipperary. The Irishman scratched his chin, shook his head and replied, "Well, if I wanted to go to Tipperary, I wouldn't start from here!" .


:lol:

ciao
alberto

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 Post subject: Re: The Future of Gemscopes? NOT
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:37 am 
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btw, the same seller listed a real gemmo scope here.
It seems the classical new gia-fashion chinese made base coupled to a classical chinese made head, i think Owen, like me and others, already saw this..... :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: The Future of Gemscopes? NOT
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:02 am 
Alberto wrote:
btw, the same seller listed a real gemmo scope here.
It seems the classical new gia-fashion chinese made base coupled to a classical chinese made head, i think Owen, like me and others, already saw this..... :wink:


Yes, you and I discussed this model as a possible direct import from China AIR, when you were inducting me into the features that make a 'scope good or bad for gemmo use. I didn't opt for this model then and - on the basis of this photo alone - continue to have some reservations about it in comparison to the old Kruess KSW 7000 base (no longer offered) or identical GIA-type base last offered ( I think) with their Mk X 'scope.

Here's the new style base:
Attachment:
Futurecope_ques.JPG
Futurecope_ques.JPG [ 43.17 KiB | Viewed 2491 times ]


There are changes to the base which may be significant and not for the better in comparison with the older design. These changes are:
- The footprint of the base is much reduced in area.
- The base seems to have been further and substantially lightened by replacing the old two-part cast alloy design with a design that has an alloy bottom and and plastic top.
- The tilt mechanism mounting seems to have been moves a little closer to the rear edge of the already smaller and lighter base. This mounting is the point through which which the combined weight of the pod, horizontal support and vertical mount with its massive rack and pinion focussing, exercises a turning (toppling) moment on the smaller and lighter base.

As the use of the tilt mechanism swivels the stage and swings out the vertical arm and pod away from the centre of the base, I'd be concerned to know how close to the very edge of stability these changes cause the centre of gravity now to be when fully tilted. My sense of it is that it is likely now to be 'too close, for for a decent margin of stability and security'. But others may not worry as I do. And indeed the appearance may be deceptive.

Other concerns are:
- The tilt mechanism has been redesigned and now utilises less massive metal lugs. One would need a close inspection to determine whether any of this has weakened the previous excellent design significantly. You may remember that we discussed at some length the inferiority of several varieties of tilt mechanisms presently on the market.
- The optical pod seems to have a plastic moulding clamshell casing rather than the cast alloy casing found on (e.g.) the Chlight M10XX/T design of pods of which I am a user and very well pleased with. I know that at least one famous brand now sells a plastic clamshell- cased optic pod - but that does not make me like the idea any better.
- Also, there is no diopter fine adjustment for the left eyepiece (so it follows that is probably not incorporated for the right eye-piece either). If so, then this is a very cheap design that has no place in a unit being sold at this price.

Personally, I would not buy one of these units unless I was first able to examine one. Even then, my guess is that I could find better elsewhere for no more money.


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 Post subject: Re: The Future of Gemscopes? NOT
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:40 pm 
Browsing today, I came across this:
Attachment:
futurescope_ques(2).jpg
futurescope_ques(2).jpg [ 53.52 KiB | Viewed 2453 times ]


I think the manufacture of the hardware at least may be Fable, a Chinese company which make a range of gemmo goods but does no retail business. Max Davis, a member here, is a reseller for Fable, servicing both the US and EU. The price of this scope is also about USD 2150 before shipping.

Points to note from the pic are:
1. It has a near-clone of the older, heavier and larger footprint design of the GIA Mk X units that some of us find so desirable.
2. The incident spotlight is a fibreoptic feed from the light-well (as per the GIA design). This provides a 'warmer' and possibly stronger halogen light that the LED light on the similar offering from BioImager.
3. The optical pod shell looks screwed together, meaning that it can be opened for service by local specialist company and need not be returned to te manufacturer for servicing.
4. There looks like diopter fine adjustment for the right-hand ocular. This means that it should be there for the left ocular too.

Since this base will accept any pod with the now standard circular case diameter of 76mm, any interested could always asked to buy the hardware only, dropping onto it an optical pod of their choice(including a trinocular pod) - or even their existing pod. Worth asking anyway....

Are we getting any warmer towards a moderately priced new scope of some quality?


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 Post subject: Re: The Future of Gemscopes? NOT
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:44 pm 
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Attachment:
2011-08-26_000242.jpg
2011-08-26_000242.jpg [ 22.19 KiB | Viewed 2429 times ]

and the OGI's Girdleviewer Image

the Chinese one seems to be assembled from various parts that explains the tilting feature

as Kerensky examples this manufacture does assemble stuff together

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 Post subject: Re: The Future of Gemscopes? NOT
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:17 pm 
Alberto wrote:
Kerensky wrote:
Why not?


link sent 8) , we'll see.......


Quote:
A visitor to Ireland stopped an Irishman on the road to ask for directions to Tipperary. The Irishman scratched his chin, shook his head and replied, "Well, if I wanted to go to Tipperary, I wouldn't start from here!" .


:lol:

ciao
alberto


If seems that this Canadian re-seller is no longer offering 'the sawn-off abortion'

Aborted by its manufacturer? One hopes so.


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 Post subject: Re: The Future of Gemscopes? NOT
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:27 pm 
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Kerensky wrote:
Aborted by its manufacturer? One hopes so.


yeah, halleluja. still no reply to my message though....
ciao
alberto

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 Post subject: Re: The Future of Gemscopes? NOT
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:34 pm 
Alberto wrote:
Kerensky wrote:
Aborted by its manufacturer? One hopes so.


yeah, halleluja. still no reply to my message though....
ciao
alberto


Maybe the withdrawal was your answer in full? Actions speak louder than words....


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