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 Post subject: GL Gem Raman TM – now available
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:12 am 
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i see good future in spectrometers any research and product will improve and one step closer, i only wonder about calibration

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Gemlab Research & Technology has released its GL Gem RamanTM system.

The GL Gem RamanTM is an advanced gem testing instrument for experienced gemmologists, gem merchants, mineral collectors and others; it is also an excellent educational tool.

http://www.cigem.ca/research-technology/gl-gem-raman
http://www.cigem.ca/store/instruments/gl-gem-raman
http://www.cigem.ca/research-technology

Quote:
The GL Gem Raman quickly can tell the difference between diamond, cubic zirconia, glass and zircon, distinguish jadeite from nephrite, separate real from faux pearls, tell whether it is ivory or plastic. There is great potential for detecting treatments and colour enhancements in gemstones; it will help in the determination of the nature of diamonds, gemstones and minerals.

The GL Gem Raman software allows real-time spectral acquisition; it can be used to operate both the GL Gem Spectrometer and the GL Gem Raman making them a powerful combo unit for advanced gemstone and mineral identification. It can replace other advanced spectrometer types such as NIR256-2.5 near-infrared spectrometers, FTIR (Fourier transform spectroscopy) spectrometers and temperature regulated Raman units.

The spectra can be saved and imported into a searchable database program with over 3,000 references; the database is linked to the large on-line mineralogical RUFF database for Raman spectra.

GL Gem Raman users will also have access to the C.I.G. (Canadian Institute of Gemmology) gem reference library which is being compiled from its large gem study collection. Other reference databases can be consulted on-line.

The GL Gem Raman is now available for under $ 7,000 FOB Vancouver, Canada .


GL Gem Raman Workshop:
http://www.cigem.ca/store/course-regist ... n-workshop
Quote:
This course is for current or future users of the GL Gem Raman system.

Using PowerPoint presentations the development and use of Raman spectrometers is introduced.
Procedure of proper calibration with Laser Glasses (190-548nm); learning step-by-step testing method with GLGemRaman software and searchable database.
Practical testing of a number of interesting gem materials by the participants under supervision of the workshop facilitator.

Presenter: Wolf Kuehn, B.A., M.A., Dipl.oec, FGA, FGG

Time: Thu, April, 12 - 1:30 - 4 p.m. (2 1/2 hours)

Location: Vancouver Airport Hotel TBA, Richmond B.C., Canada

Limited to 5 participants

Fee: $ 295 (free for purchasers of the GL Gem Raman*); to keep costs down no lunch or beverage services are offered.

Please wait with travel arrangements until final confirmation

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http://gemclub.co


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 Post subject: Re: GL Gem Raman TM – now available
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:55 am 
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I have very reliable information that there will be another Spectrographic option available for the trade within a couple of months.

I might hold off before making a purchase.

The one currently in development will use an Ocean Optics spectrometer with DEDICATED software written specifically for gemological use, enabling automatic comparisons with a reliable database.


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 Post subject: Re: GL Gem Raman TM – now available
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:55 pm 
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I would hold off for a long long time. An infinite amount of time. :roll:

That fact that you can take a Raman spectrum of something that emits a very strong Raman effect signal, does not mean that what you have, is a real Raman spectrometer.

Before buying any so called Raman instrument potential purchasers should ask for detailed specifications and an example of the Raman spectrum of deionized water and cyclohexane taken by the instrument they want to sell you.
http://www.horiba.com/us/en/scientific/ ... ise-ratio/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cyclo ... _Raman.JPG

If anybody wants a Raman unit to the tune of $7,000 I will assemble a system from things I have on the shelf here, using real laboratory spectrometers, and research lab grade lasers. (not a hopped up green laser pointer)
It would blow the socks off anything that can be made from any current or previous Ocean Optics model or any of their compact clones. In specifications that matter such as spectral resolution, detector sensitivity, ability to read close to the laser line, signal to noise ratio, etc.

Quote:
It can replace other advanced spectrometer types such as NIR256-2.5 near-infrared spectrometers, FTIR (Fourier transform spectroscopy) spectrometers and temperature regulated Raman units.

The above statement makes no sense whatsoever. Raman and FTIR are complementary techniques not interchangeable ones.

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The GL Gem Raman software allows real-time spectral acquisition; it can be used to operate both the GL Gem Spectrometer and the GL Gem Raman making them a powerful combo unit for advanced gemstone and mineral identification.


This statement implies that the "Raman" unit uses as its detector the same or a variant of the homemade fiber optic spectrometer that their UV visible unit uses. An experienced list member has had one of those and found it wanting.


Last edited by G4Lab on Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:05 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: GL Gem Raman TM – now available
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:15 pm 
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as far i've learned every raman spectrometer requires unique calibration to get proper & usable result, thats why i wondered how accurate this can be. but for sure any research and new equipments will improve future models from different manufactures

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 Post subject: Re: GL Gem Raman TM – now available
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:07 pm 
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Quote:
but for sure any research and new equipments will improve future models from different manufactures

In my opinion this is only true if the research and new equipment actually make a contribution as opposed to just trying to make a fast buck or two foisting junk off on unsuspecting customers.
Caveat Emptor!


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 Post subject: Re: GL Gem Raman TM – now available
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:04 pm 
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G4Lab wrote:
Quote:
but for sure any research and new equipments will improve future models from different manufactures

In my opinion this is only true if the research and new equipment actually make a contribution as opposed to just trying to make a fast buck or two foisting junk off on unsuspecting customers.
Caveat Emptor!


Gene is right...

I've done my part, only to see it ripped off, time and time again since the mid 1990's, as has Ocean Optics with the current cheap knockoffs of their optical bench using uncoated detectors suffering from 2nd order optical effects.

As to RAMAN systems, the most important uses today increasingly require very high resolution (quantization) spectrometers as their basis.

15 years or so ago, I introduced to the trade novel ideas using OOI spectrometers for color grading and treatment detection, as well as investing many man man years on software development to automatically detect radiation damage in diamonds, a gemological database.

I should have patented my cryogenic immersion technique as Jim Shigley had suggested when he saw it, and I said "why bother spending $20,000 on lawyers for a patent, when I would have no idea who was ripping it off.

To address some of the issues, the RUFF project for a RAMAN data base of the worlds mineralogical data , which was preceded by George Rossman's spectroscopy server at Cal Tech, puts out to the public's use, a vast amount of information for gemological/mineralogical identification. BUT, the most important information , held in tax exempt proprietary hands, dealing with treatment detection and other age old issues, such as the basis for the natural/artificial green diamond call are still withheld.

Current wavelength calibration of spectrometers (typically un-weighted 2nd or 3rd order) limited least squares fits to mercury-argon emission lines, don't take into account the smearing effects of the optical bench and the quantization of the solid state detectors, and are very unreliable when used above or below the emission wavelength used in the calibration, even though the spectrometers are used in those regions. Do the math!!!!

Resellers (merchants) who don't understand the problem(s) do their clients a basic disservice by over-hyping the tools they try to sell.

My rant for the day :evil:

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Marty Haske
SAS2000 Spectrophotometer Analysis System
Adamas Gem Lab


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 Post subject: Re: GL Gem Raman TM – now available
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:35 pm 
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Quote:
I've done my part, only to see it ripped off, time and time again since the mid 1990's, as has Ocean Optics with the current cheap knockoffs of their optical bench using uncoated detectors suffering from 2nd order optical effects.


The gem raman is made by this guy.
http://aseq-instruments.com/index.html

He has some things showing that they are "coming soon" Like a Raman instrument.

Before one commits ones hard earned money to buy something that is offered things to ask are ,
what is the distinctive competence of the person making and selling this instrument. In the case of ASEQ and GemLab are they smarter or more experienced than say Ocean Optics ? (who have probably sold more of their spectrometers than all other UV VIS models ever made by all the people who ever made them.) I am no longer a particular fan of Ocean Optics , and am of the opinion that
there are several better alternatives. But the units in question here don't even come close.

The GemLab website tells you you can use SpekWin and the RRUFF mineral database. I had both of those links about twelve years ago. Any junior high school kid can find them Pointing links to them constitutes neither a contribution nor a distinctive competence.

If someone wants to buy a gemological fiber optic spectrometer here is a much better choice.
http://www.avantes.com/images/stories/0 ... mology.pdf

Avantes was the Ocean Optics distributor for Europe and then decided to compete with them instead.

Here is another even better choice.
http://www.stellarnet.us/index.htm
The CEO of StellarNet wrote the first Ocean Optics software. His hardware is an improvement on OO which they have just copied on their latest generation of spectrometers , theOO Torus series.

I invite the readers to go an look at these pages:
http://www.cigem.ca/newsletter/news0904/newsletter.html
http://www.cigem.ca/newsletter/news0903/newsletter.html
where you can see examples of unacceptably noisy spectra taken with late model Ocean Optics spectrometers.

These are consistent with problems I have seen with recent OO spectrometers here at the university where I work .


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 Post subject: Re: GL Gem Raman TM – now available
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:21 am 
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G4Lab wrote:
Quote:
I've done my part, only to see it ripped off, time and time again since the mid 1990's, as has Ocean Optics with the current cheap knockoffs of their optical bench using uncoated detectors suffering from 2nd order optical effects.



I invite the readers to go an look at these pages:
http://www.cigem.ca/newsletter/news0904/newsletter.html
http://www.cigem.ca/newsletter/news0903/newsletter.html
where you can see examples of unacceptably noisy spectra taken with late model Ocean Optics spectrometers.

These are consistent with problems I have seen with recent OO spectrometers here at the university where I work .


Why do you take spectra immersed ???????????????
In liquid nitrogren to cool it, but this...

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Marty Haske
SAS2000 Spectrophotometer Analysis System
Adamas Gem Lab


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 Post subject: Re: GL Gem Raman TM – now available
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:30 pm 
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Craig Technologies makes some nice things. Their distinctive competence is mating small spectrometers with microscopes. The paper referred to is just one of those attempts to expand who might be interested in buying their pricey gear.

They are just trying to improve coupling of the specimen in transmission mode. Very unnecessary for a faceted stone with a table. Rather than immersion and microscopy a better approach is an integrating sphere or flat black sampling chamber.

For most gemological use microscope spectrophotometry is overkill unless one wants to take the spectrum of an inclusion for some reason. The value of such instruments is in mapping areas of specimens. Normally what we would be interested in would be called "bulk properties" that is the spectrum of the whole stone.


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 Post subject: Re: GL Gem Raman TM – now available
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:23 pm 
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http://www.labx.com/v2/adsearch/detail3 ... 7#MoreDesc

Here is a Raman that might make more sense to buy. A real Raman made by a company that is actually in the business of making Raman spectrometers. $12,900 785 nanometer laser. (that is probably good because it won't excite some fluorescences)


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