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 Post subject: GemmoRaman-532
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:43 pm 
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We are considering buying the Gemmoraman 532 for our store. We want to do the most accurate appraisals and need help with new treatments and separating some natural from synthetic more quickly. Anybody using this equipment out there?


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 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman-532
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:51 pm 
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Hi Jim,

The developers of this machine are both members so you should have no problem getting help and / or advice.

I'm sure one of them will be in touch with you soon as they see this post.


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 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman-532
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:01 pm 
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Location: Napoli italy
We purchased the GemmoRaman-532 and it was installed a couple of weeks ago in our office. I think it's fine piece of equipment and really saves time in testing.

I must admit we were a bit intimidated at the beginning but, after playing with it for a while we realized it is actually quite simple to use thanks to the user friendly software.

Most of the time the autoscan wizard does the job completely.



About your specific question, Raman fingerprint is specifically useful to ID for materials so it doesn’t say if the material is natural or synthetic.

The Photoluminescence extended range is very useful in order to spot for some synthetics and treatments.

I found the Application notes published on their website quite useful. We were able to positively ID synth. emeralds and spinels, even some sapphires and alexandrites with PL (Alberto And Mikko still didn’t published that application note), polymers and dyes can be identified too (jade, coral, freshwater pearls and other materials). Mikko and Alberto told me photoluminescence still has not revealed all its potential. They are pretty sure more developments will follow very soon.



The only problem I see is about stones having lot of fluorescence, but we‘ve been warned by Alberto about that. Strong fluorescence in some stones can sometimes completely saturate the signal and no Raman reading is possible. There is some tools for helping the situation like photo-bleaching, but it doesn't work for high chromium stones. The stone has to be aligned off- center before getting the PL spectrum.

Of course an IR Raman setup could be more effective on this side but besides the higher cost of the machine (about 3 times the price), you wouldn’t have the PL features which I consider extremely useful, sometimes more than the Raman itself. I think the articles posted on the gemmoraman website are really illuminating about that, do you have read them?
Francesco


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 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman-532
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:31 am 
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Location: Rome, Italy
although the GemmoRaman-532 is an advanced gemmological instrument, it's potentiality could be used even for simple routine assignments.
We lately implemented a customer inspired software tool for ultra-fast diamond screening...... have a look to this pactical demo 8) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkMT_jV9 ... ture=youtu.

sorry for the gemmo purisits........... :oops: .................i already hear them blaming us for this.................. [-X

ciao

Alberto & Mikko

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 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman-532
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:43 am 
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Location: the Netherlands
Looks like the limiting factor is going to be the tweezer skills of the operator!

:P


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 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman-532
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:44 am 
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Tim wrote:
Looks like the limiting factor is going to be the tweezer skills of the operator!

:P


yeah, mate.....exactly!! :oops:
ciao
albé

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 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman-532
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:39 am 
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:) The magic black box has arrived.

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 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman-532
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:41 am 
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allen wrote:
:) The magic black box has arrived.


[-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman-532
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:12 pm 
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Location: Monterey, CA
Alberto,
You asked in your advertising blurb, “Can you do it any faster.”
Yes, of course, I can. That trick has been around for over 45 years. The Jeweler’s Eye, The Diamond Eye, and the Hodgkinson Method can do the same. But it still a good trick.

Anyway, next month I am giving a talk to a GIA Section Meeting about visual optical gemology. I would like to show how your instrument eliminates the need for gemological training in order to determine the identity of any stone. One might say that one doesn’t really need a gemologist at all.

The real problem is determining its value. That is “appraisal” and that is not taught in gemology. The problem of natural or synthetic is also “appraisal.” It now rests on “certificates” from labs having the necessary skills and equipment. It seems, the only thing left for "trained gemologists" is selling, and that doesn't pay too well.

After all that, may I ask if you have a picture of your instrument which I could use for my talk. I guess, you could just send me a PDF and a bit of a sales pitch.


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 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman-532
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:12 pm 
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Quote:
I would like to show how your instrument eliminates the need for gemological training in order to determine the identity of any stone. One might say that one doesn’t really need a gemologist at all.


Okay, you are entitled to have your opinion but please be careful not putting the same words in to our mouths... We are just delivering one more instrument from big labs to gemologist's desktop. In our world gemologists are needed more than ever and their job just get's more complicated every day.

Quote:
Yes, of course, I can. That trick has been around for over 45 years. The Jeweler’s Eye, The Diamond Eye, and the Hodgkinson Method can do the same. But it still a good trick.


If for nothing else, proper training is mandatory for filtering information. Like for example which methods are diagnostic and which are not.

Quote:
I guess, you could just send me a PDF and a bit of a sales pitch


Sorry, we do not have sales pitch PDF. All the material including pictures, free articles and open source Raman spectra are available at our website.

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 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman-532
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:03 pm 
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Mikko,
Thanks for the quick reply. I checked your website and that will do fine.


Good luck


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 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman-532
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:05 am 
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Bill Hanneman wrote:
One might say that one doesn’t really need a gemologist at all.


As the most needed instrument of the gemologist still is the microscope to determine most types of treatments and to distinguish synthetics from natural I do not agree with you Dr Hannemann. A microscope in the hands of someone without proper training or experience is meaningless. For sure you do not have to have a gemological degree but training and experience is important and that type of training you get when studying gemology with one of the serious gemological organizations available.

A raman unit is good to determine type of mineral, not the end of gemology...

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