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 Post subject: Titanium slide-locking tweezers?
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 12:51 am 
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Hi,

Please can someone suggest me a good quality titanium slide-locking tweezers?

I always used stainless steel slide-locking Swiss tweezers. But I just bought a Dumont titanium tweezers (non-locking model) from Kassoy and I love it!!! So lightweight and the titanium gives that smoooooth touch!

Now I would like to find a slide-locking tweezers made out of titanium. But I can't find one!?! Sadly Dumont doesn't make one. Kassoy doesn't have one. Some retailers offer the GemOro. But I have a stainless steel slide-locking tweezers from GemOro, the one they include with their PCT-251 scale and it's a real piece of crap. I never used such cheap tweezers. The slide-locking mechanism is "grinding" all the way up and down.

Does anyone ever used the titanium black one YTV sells? At 40$ the price would be good if it happens to be a good one :

http://www.jtv.com/Black-Titanium-Mediu ... lt,pd.html

Or does anyone have another suggestion to make?

Thanks!


Last edited by DavinciQc on Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Titanium slide-locking tweezers?
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 11:34 am 
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Hi Mike,

in my experience, titanium tweezers do tend to leave black marks on the girdles if these have been left unfaceted.

Just something to look out for.. :roll:

Rgds
David


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 Post subject: Re: Titanium slide-locking tweezers?
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 11:37 am 
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Davidauctioneer wrote:
tend to leave black marks on the girdles if these have been left unfaceted.


which are a real PIA to remove, i'd add..................

ciao
alberto

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 Post subject: Re: Titanium slide-locking tweezers?
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 3:00 pm 
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Hi David and Alberto,

Oh! I didn't know that. I hope my cutters won't leave any of my polished diamonds with unfaceted girdles, but if it happens, I'll sure pay attention while using my titanium tweezers.

So in case I find a good quality titanium slide-locking tweezers I better use it only with rough diamonds. Because even if I'm always careful, I sometimes do put a little bit to much pressure when using those slide-locking tweezers.

Thanks for your inputs!


Last edited by DavinciQc on Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Titanium slide-locking tweezers?
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 3:13 pm 
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Quote:
which are a real PIA to remove, i'd add..................


This is predictable from the chemistry. Titanium is very acid resistant. It is used for plating anodes.

If you need to remove a titanium smudge pass a jeweler's torch over it with a very oxidizing flame. It should burn away instantly. Powdered titanium is what is used in "Titanium Salutes" the big boom firework shells. You can get titanium grinding particles to flash and pop even with a bunsen burner. :wink: (much more fun than even magnesium particles) :twisted:

The reason that it smudges on the abrasive surface of stones, is that it is not hard, nor abrasion resistant. In the early 1980s it was tried as a material for hip replacement implants. It was a disaster. It's strength, greater flexibility , fatique resistance , light weight and biocompatibility all are great. But(compared to other metals) it has no abrasion resistance worth mentioning. So the ball that goes into a soft plastic socket caused all sorts of wear problems. It's a great material for the stem( the part of the hip replacement that goes down the thigh bone, with a ceramic or vitallium ball component) or for fracture repair plates or pacemaker cans. Not attacked by bodily fluids which is desireable for jewelry rings too.

The best material for jewelers tweezers is carbon tool steel. It can be sharpened the sharpest and also are the springiest. Some stainless steels might be a little better for watchmakers who want totally non magnetic properties(or DuMoxel). Titanium and various other alloys are selected when very specific properties are needed. These can also be accomplished with special tips that the manufacturers of these are happy to provide at very high prices , such as quartz tips, ceramic tips, carbon fiber, teflon or other types of unobtanium. But usually the people looking for these have a particular process problem they are wanting to solve, such as in the semiconductor,medical, or optics industries.

At the GIA classes I attended the instructors were very anti locking tweezers. They said that if the stone was tapped wrong it would be launched into the invisible abyss and lost and would not allow locking tweezers to be used in the classes. They explicitly said that learning to handle (non-locking)tweezers was as important as learning to handle a loupe.

The titanium locking tweezers from JTV have mainly "I got one , you don't!" value. (A value I understand very well. :lol: )
I really can't think of any good reason to use them. They are not more durable than stainless steel or carbon steel. They are not that much lighter either. Also if DuMont does not make it , you probably don't need it. They are the inventors of the watchmaker's and jeweler's tweezer, as we know it today. They are the Wild or Zeiss of tweezers. Copied but never equalled.


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 Post subject: Re: Titanium slide-locking tweezers?
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 5:23 pm 
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G4Lab wrote:
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which are a real PIA to remove, i'd add..................


If you need to remove a titanium smudge pass a jeweler's torch over it with a very oxidizing flame. It should burn away instantly.


[-X Be careful, it's not a good idea to expose diamonds to a direct flame of jewelry torch!

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 Post subject: Re: Titanium slide-locking tweezers?
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 5:39 pm 
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Yes you would want to do it quickly. Not more than a flick of the torch. Lots of excess oxygen. You make a very good point. Fortunately titanium is explosively flammable in thin form. I have not done it, but will try to do the experiment soon on an Alumina India stone at the jewelry lab. (May be closed for the summer, I think the professor said she would be off all summer) The heat of the titanium burning could well leave a mark on the diamond. Might need some repolishing which is probably the best way to get it off anyway.

But it's already not a good idea, to get a titanium smudge on a stone in the first place. Very resistant to acids. Probably even aqua regia. Hdrofluoric acid would probably dissolve it. But that is on my very short list of things I just won't play with.

Absolutely no reason for a jeweler or gemologist to use a titanium tweezer. Watchmakers(maybe) and assemblers of titanium medical devices(where you only want transfer of the same metal),or titanium naval ordinance,, yes.

Why would you ever use a titanium tweezer?? Other than you got a case of the "gimme!s"(again, I understand THAT all too well!!) . The "touch" or feel is mostly irrelevant. And a locking tweezer is almost CERTAIN to leave a smear.


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 Post subject: Re: Titanium slide-locking tweezers?
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 1:54 am 
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Well I work mainly with rough diamonds, so I don't care if a titanium tweezers would leave a smudge on some of the gem quality stone, since they're all going to be cut. And I couldn't even care less if it leaves smudge on industrial diamond. As for polished diamonds well now thanks to you guys I'm really gonna take care with my titanium tweezers.

@G4Lab : As for feeling the lightness of titanium, I'm sorry but I have to totally disagree with you G4Lab. In the field when you appraise +5 cts stones you don't need tweezers, only one's bare fingers. But when you sort 100 or 200 cts of smaller rough diamonds then you do need tweezers. And when you "play" with a 200 cts colis for 3 hours you learn the be very sensitive of the weight of the tweezers you're using. At the exact moment I took out my new Dumont titanium tweezers out of the plastic bag, I could feel right away that the difference in weight was enormous!!! And it goes also for the smooth felling "touch" of the titanium. When you work 3 hours in a row sorting melee you pay attention to the weight yes, but also the feeling touch of the tweezers you're using.

A few minutes ago I did a test to give you proof. I measure the weights of a inox (stainless steel) tweezers against my Dumont titanium tweezers. The titanium Dumont weights 53% less then the stainless steel tweezers!!!! That's less than half the weight of the ss tweezers!!! You can so easily feel it, as I told already, I could feel the difference the second I took them out of their plastic bag.

Here' s the measurements in the pictures below :
Image
Image

By the way, titanium is as you know non-magnetic, so no more lint on the tips! For me it's a big plus! How many times I took a small alcohol pad to clean my loupe's lens, my tweezers tips, my stone, put everything close to my my eye... to find out that those damn magnetic tweezers did already attract some lints :x But now with my new titanium tweezers, it won't happen again. I save time, I make more money. Like I said, I'm a business man.

Titanium VS Stainless Steel tweezers :
- Half the weight
- No more lint (titanium is non-magnetic)
- Incredible smooth "touch"

Oh didn't I read on that forum that stainless steel tweezers could mess up the readings on digital scale? That would be a BIG plus for titanium tweezers! Umm...


Last edited by DavinciQc on Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:37 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Titanium slide-locking tweezers?
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:50 am 
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I am quite aware of the density differences between titanium and stainless or other materials. (Interesting that DuMont's pages say the difference is 40%).

It would be a dull world if we all held the same opinions. If you love your titanium tweezers, then enjoy them. Titanium surgical instruments were all the rage about twenty years ago but it was a fad that passed. They weren't springy enough compared to stainless or other steels. This is because titanium's modulus of elasticity is much lower than steel's.

If you have a problem with magnetic "lint" ,you need to worry more, about your workspace cleanliness. If there is magnetic lint around, it will find it's way into your scale, and cause problems there. More of a problem, than placing a stainless tweezer on it will.

If I was making a living trafficking in diamonds, I would use a much better scale than the one illustrated. Something built by Mettler , Sartorius , Denver Instruments or other maker of equal quality. IMO a much more important place to put resources.


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 Post subject: Re: Titanium slide-locking tweezers?
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 1:12 pm 
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Hi,

When I did get a smudge, and this was once using a collegues titanium tweezers on a 2. something carat, I needed to get the stone boiled. Not a problem, normally a question of 4€ and a half hour wait..IF you are in Antwerp, NY or any other major diamond capital.

As to titanium or not; if you are indeed sorting boart, rough or carbonados no problem. Otherwise stick to stainless or even rubber tipped (all the people at intake at HRD use them) if dealing with softer gems..

I have locking stainless ones from Swiss-Axe, but I am sure there's an equivalent from Kassoy or so in the states. Had it for like 8 years or so.

And as for locking tweezers: is a question of preference: as I quite often pass a stone to someone, its a good thing to have.

David


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 Post subject: Re: Titanium slide-locking tweezers?
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 4:32 pm 
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I didn't say I had problem using stainless steel tweezers with a digital scale. Other people on this forum did.

@ G4Lab : As for the scale, Sartorius scale is for sure the way to go, everyone is the business is using Sartorius. But you also need a very portable scale, like the one I use in my test. Because when you need to go to some remote area, sometime 4 hours by foot, or 2 hours by motorcycle, where the hell are you gonna put your damn huge Sartorius scale??? If you have some real field advice on how to achieve that G4Lab please share with me!

@ G4Lab : By using the word "trafficking" did you mean smuggling, contraband? Please specify the exact meaning of your words.


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 Post subject: Re: Titanium slide-locking tweezers?
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 4:47 pm 
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I have several tweezers and hemostats that I have put various soft things onto.

One method is to use heat shrink tubing. This makes a generally thin but hard coating. Different thicknesses are available including some with plastic inside that melts when the heat is applied. This gives a thick and stiff coating. Of course much less hard than metal so will not scratch nor chip things.

One can also find rubber or tygon (pvc )tubing and slip it onto a tweezer or hemostat.

Of course this is a trick I learned in surgery where a Kelly hemostat is "shod" with a piece of latex tubing. It is then called a "shod Kelly".

My main use for these things is manipulating calibration and test weights which must not be handled with metal.

There are lightweight scales made by Sartorius under their AccuLab label. I am not a field person at all,and I never go to remote areas, so I would not presume to give much advice in that department. Depending on how far afield you go, I have in the past advocated using inexpensive, far east made instruments, in the field, so that you don't feel like committing suicide, because your canoe turned over in the Amazon, and dumped your Mettler balance and your Wild microscope into the water.

I don't think the word trafficking has any sinister connotations in and of itself. If it does I retract the usage. Perhaps since the news media have associated the word with drugs, arms, and human traffickers it has acquired a dark patina.

Quote:
To carry on trade or other dealings: trafficked in liquidation merchandise;
To carry on traffic, trade, or commercial dealings.


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 Post subject: Re: Titanium slide-locking tweezers?
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 6:11 pm 
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Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/trafficking


I've never thought about putting tiny heat shrink tubing over the tweezers tips, that's one good trick!


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