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 Post subject: The Verdict on Diamapen
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:54 am 
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What is the verdict on the DiamaPen? The last discussions were about a year and a half ago. Actually there has been no new news, that I am aware of; in the trade or on the internet. Kassoy is now carrying it. Is the following true or false?...
"There is across-the-board consensus that the DiamaPen is indeed a reliable tool for a first-round of identifying, detecting and separating synthetic diamonds, both HPHT and CVD grown diamonds, from their natural counterparts" "It readily screens out (synthetic) Moissanite, cubic zirconia, and other simulants. Test results for natural, fracture-filled diamonds as well as lab-grown HPHT diamonds that were consequently irradiated to change or improve their color also proved conclusive.

And how does Kuzi use it at his EGL Asia?

GemmoRaman-532 on June 12, 2012 you said you were going to inquire with the manufacturer. Any news?

Thanks, Dennis


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 Post subject: Re: The Verdict on Diamapen
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:24 pm 
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As far as I can see the Diamapen is nothing more than a 405 nm laser pointer and a set of green safety goggles so that you can relatively safely observe the blue or green fluorescence of the stones under test.

It is very important that you obtain decent safety goggles. I recently downloaded a couple of articles done by some ophtamological surgeons. They experimented on patients who were scheduled to have eyeballs removed for other reasons. They published two papers. One stated that the proverbial red laser pointer did no damage to the retina even when pointed directly into the eye for periods of time you would not likely do yourself. (ie. minutes)

The same was not true for 532 nm green lasers which when pointed into the eye did histologically detectable damage in as little as 15 seconds. Since the Diamapen uses a 405 nm laser the shorter wavelength is correspondingly more energetic. Also the Scotopic pigments in the retina are bluish color as is the choroid layer and I would expect a 405 laser to be even more hazardous than a 532.

Accordingly make sure you wear your safety goggles when you use these tools.
Not I am not a safety wuss or nazi. I drink methylene iodide toddies every night before I go to bed. If I get paint on my hands I use benzene to get it off. But you only have two eyes and you need them.

You should be able to exactly duplicate the function of the Diamapen using this laser

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Stylish-405 ... 58ab60a0f3

Just search ebay with the terms 405nm and pointer You will get back zillions of sellers for your country. There are some powerful one watt systems available.
Make great excitation sources for Raman or PhotoLuminescences spectroscopy too.


Also search Laser Goggles 405

and pick from the green goggles

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-405nm-445n ... 1837wt_908

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190nm-355nm-405 ... 2253wt_908


There are red orange colored goggles but you won't be able to see the blue or green fluorescence if you look through them. They are safer with respect to the laser light

so don't buy these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-Laser-Prot ... 5d3ac53a44
(they are suitable if for example you are experimenting with Raman spectroscopy. But they will block all green and blue light)

Remember that you NEVER look at a laser beam through an optical system and a faceted gemstone IS an optical system.

A list member has recently ordered some of the above items and I will ask him to report when he receives the goodies.


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 Post subject: Re: The Verdict on Diamapen
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:42 am 
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G4Lab

Thank you for your response. Thank you for the words of caution. As gemologists we can loose all our 5 senses except for one.

I am waiting for input on the effectiveness of the method.

If a forum contributor said it will confirm 100% of the time that, for example; 98% of the diamond parcel as natural; and the 2% balance needs to go for further gemological testing. It works!

Who will confirm that?....100% of the time the DiamaPen will tell you what is natural and what needs to go for further testing.

Now is it generally true that on average 98% of a given diamond parcel is natural; and the 2% balance needs to go for further gemological testing?

Why hasn't anybody asked this question!? I will reject 2% of the parcel if it works. Now I am 100% sure my stones are natural.


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 Post subject: Re: The Verdict on Diamapen
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:43 pm 
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May I ask from where did you get these numbers for reliability? The reason I'm asking is because they look like numbers of UV transparency screening instrument instead of blue laser.

I'm not in position for any kind of verdict, but would like to say the subject of synthetic vs. natural diamond and especially diamond treatments is one of the most complex things I have ever studied. I'm only happy if the learning curve for someone else is lower but I feel this is one of those things "more you know, more you know you don't know".

There really does not exist a single all-purpose tool unless you happen to be a sightholder and are willing to spend 25k/ year for leasing automatic sorting machine. While studying properties of synthetic and natural diamonds it is practically impossible to separate the issue from irradiation & HPHT-treatments, which brings a whole new dimension and complexity to the subject. Synthetic diamond just happens to be the hot topic in the headlines right now, but treatments are there in real life as well to deal with.

For example, green luminescence excited by blue laser is not reliable signature of synthetic yellow diamonds, because most type Ia natural HPHT-treated yellow or green-yellow (originally brown) diamonds will also give green fluorescence... for spotting the difference human eye is not good enough and the cause of fluorescence must be determined by spectroscopy. Post irradiation & HPHT-treatments of synthetic stones complicates things even more, and the colors of fluorescence may be orange and/or blue.

Here is a list of equipment I use and need for achieving results I can live with: Our own DiaGuard (for pre-screening colorless stones), FTIR- spectrometer with DRIFT-setup, UV-Vis-NIR spectrometer with liquid nitrogen sampling option, our GemmoRaman-532Pro with liquid nitrogen setup, another photoluminescence spectrometer with 405 nm laser excitation & LNT setup, UV- fluorescence microscope with 200, 250, 300 and 360 nm filtering, horizontal immersion microscope with cross polarizing filters, stereo-zoom microscope and standard UV-lamp. Additionally one needs a good reference book library, lot's of peer reviewed articles (e.g. G&G, DRM) and spectral libraries accumulated by testing known reliable samples (a mission never accomplished).

I hope this gives some perspective for understanding the usefulness and limitations of blue laser pointer as a synthetic diamond detection tool. I'm sure sometimes it works ok… but the same applies even for $1 neodymium magnet.

_________________
GemmoRaman GemmoFtir GemmoSphere


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 Post subject: Re: The Verdict on Diamapen
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:18 am 
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Mikko,

Thank you for your reply.

Actually I am looking for a reliability percentage. The percentages I wrote down were hypothetical (I think my wife maybe correct when she says she cannot understand my emails).

As I understand, the Diamapen can distinguish 100% of the time between natural diamonds and diamonds that should be sent to a laboratory (with advanced/expensive equipment) for further testing.

I need to know if that is true.

Then I need to know, what general percentage of diamonds on the market would be categorized as natural and what percentage would, with the DiamaPen; result with an "undetermined, refer to laboratory".

If I have these percentages I can then say, " Mr. Customer, I can take 100 diamonds and tell you conclusively that 98 of them are natural and 2 of them I cannot tell you for certain. They would need to go to a laboratory for further testing".

Just to let everybody know I have contacted DiamaPen and let them know of this topic and I hope that they will provide input. The person providing the input will probably be named Joseph.


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 Post subject: Re: The Verdict on Diamapen
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:50 am 
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I think Mikko delineated rather precisely what it takes to get "results he can live with". Even at that I don't think he feels that he has reached 100% nor is safe from the next technical process to come out of the world.

Your hypothetical numbers are exactly that , hypothethical. You are wasting your time with the Diamapen. Send it back for a refund. THAT is the verdict.


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 Post subject: Re: The Verdict on Diamapen
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:48 pm 
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Thank you both for your input.

I am a bit disheartened. Presently, its seems impossible to prevent synthetic and HPHT treated diamonds to leak onto the market. Of course cert quality/size stones being the exception.

But the melee and under a carat goods. If the market cares does it envision firstly, a booth at all the trade shows with all the equipment Mikko described. Secondly,to be 100% sure; do dealers cachet a parcel bring it over to to the booth, have it analyzed; and then mazal.

Martin Rapaport recently described some of the equipment and the GIA equipment lease to sightholders. For me this is the last place I would place testing equipment. It is not the furthest upstream in the pipeline but furthest downstream.

I quote from Rapaport's article of December 2013, "In China, there are reports that jewelry manufacturers are selling jewelry set with synthetic diamonds as 100 percent natural."..."An even more insidious approach is being taken by companies that are reportedly buying original Gemological Institute of America (GIA) grading reports and then creating synthetic diamonds to match the reports. In some instances, they are even laser-inscribing synthetic diamonds with the GIA logo and grading report number."

Martin Rapaport asks the questions, "So how can the diamond industry protect itself against fraud and misrepresentation? How must we change the way we trade diamonds? And what about our customers’ customers — the consumers? Who is protecting them?"

When will CNN ask these question? Don't think it won't happen.


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 Post subject: Re: The Verdict on Diamapen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:03 am 
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Hi again,

I just submitted my post and look what I just saw. The article came out just now.

http://www.jewellermagazine.com/Article.aspx?id=2479


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 Post subject: Re: The Verdict on Diamapen
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:00 pm 
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Let me complete my monologue:

I asked Joseph at Diampen some of the same questions. He responded:

Guess you are mixing our 2 different product.
Diamapen is for Fancy color detection and we get excellent reports from our customer.
Diamatest is our newly developed product which is 100% accurate for colorless. here we are
not going to sell it but will provide screening services at service stations.

I was given a different impression, hence this post; from the statement on the diamapen website:

The DiamaPen, a low-cost and highly accurate device for the screening and separation of synthetic diamonds from natural diamonds. The DiamaPen® is the perfect tool for diamond traders who need an affordable and reliable tool to detect and separate synthetic diamonds, both HPHT and CVD grown diamonds, from their natural counterparts.


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