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 Post subject: Desktop lamp of colored stones
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:48 am 
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Hi all
I am new on the forum, but have been reading for some years, and the information here is just amazing!
A few months ago i finished my AG course at AIGS.
I have slowly been buying the equipment i need.
I am cheching out desktop lamps for grading colored stones, but am getting a bit confused. Hope you can help out.
i can't see how many kelvin the bulbs are (would like 5500 kelvin). I tryed to write the company but got no answer so far.
I believe that the Dazor lamps are well known?
Does anyone know which bulbs this one is delivered with, if any?

http://www.rubin-and-son.com/product_details.php?item_id=1847

I am from europe, and havent been able to find much others than Rubin and Son


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 Post subject: Re: Desktop lamp of colored stones
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:36 pm 
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OOPS! just reread your post and saw that you want to grade colored stones. Cancel everything above
Fluorescent light is really not suitable for grading colored stones. A fiber optic quartz halogen illuminator will do the trick for what in the photographic film days used to be called "tungsten" light.(Color temp about 3,000 degrees K)

You need to obtain a fiber optic illuminator and use that. You need something with a VERY high color rendition index. There are starting to be some LEDs too that can do that but only at lower color temps like aroung 3000K

If you want to grade colored stones and want to have a daylight illuminator(ie. 5000-6600 degrees K) at this time the only thing available is a xenon arc lamp, which are available but somewhat more difficult to obtain than fluorescent lamps.

Usually the easiest way to implement such a lamp is to purchase a medical illuminator that can accept a fiber optic.

There is a lamp called Solux which has been promoted and was said to have a real daylight color temp and high color rendition index. However it was sampled in a scientific paper I ran across (admittedly sponsored by an LED company) and didn't perform as well as advertised. I suspected this because even a blue filter does not ADD energy where there is non , even if it can change the balance a bit.

Nonetheless a blue filtered quartz halogen, run very hot (ie. short filament life) would be superior to any fluorescent lamp. Fluorescent lamps are only suitable for the very restricted and specialized task of diamond color grading. The same is true of most current LEDs although that situation is changing rapidly.

Since you are in Europe our list moderator Tim will be happy to help you. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Desktop lamp of colored stones
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:05 am 
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Thanks a lot for your reply.
I can see that i have to dig deeper into the matter, than what i already did :)

I have a second question regarding microscopes.
I don't know much about it, besides using the once we had at AIGS.
I am looking for at good one, that i will be happy with for years to come, and came across this one from Krüss. What do you think about it?
This might be a rookie question, but can you from the pictures tell, if it has both bright- and darkfield. I can't see a baffle-switch, and i can't see where to control the iris diaphragm.


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 Post subject: Re: Desktop lamp of colored stones
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:14 am 
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If you don't see a baffle switch there probably is not one. Kruess has been guilty of selling some cheapo far east models without BF/DF for overly high prices. But why shouldn't they since GIA and the Brit Association are both doing it too.

Bad Buys!

Find an old GIA Gemolite and buy it for about 600-800 dollars. or a Gem Oro for cheep. They have a model 1030 PM that does have the BF/DF baffle. It retails new for about $250 over here. Make sure someone does not slip you the model that is the same as the one you are looking at which is sold for Bout $150 over here.
I think Rubin sells the Gem Oro scopes.


The ones without a baffle are crap and you should not buy them. Both GIA and the GAGTL are now selling such crap models. Shame on both of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Desktop lamp of colored stones
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:33 am 
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Thanks a lot!
I just checked the GemOro's. They look nice and for a lot less than the Krüss.
But i am having a challenge fiding them with european sellers.
i little work for the weekend ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Desktop lamp of colored stones
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:03 pm 
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The owner of the GemOro trademark is http://www.sykessler.com in Dallas Texas.
I am sure they could sell and ship you a European version (the inexpensive 1030PM has a dual winding transformer but you have to open it and change a wiring point. Not an automatic switching power supply) or alternatively give you the name of some European dealer they may already have.

For low price but brand new Gemolite substitutes they are the ones to beat imho.
You do want to check them out carefully upon receipt and buy from someone who will stand behind them because they do have an occasional history of QC problems.


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 Post subject: Re: Desktop lamp of colored stones
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:06 am 
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Thank you for the help!
I think i will end up buying a GemOro :-)

One last thing..... Do you know if these two are the same refractometer?


http://www.gemproducts.com/refractometer.html

Hey i am sorry for all the questions ;-)

Lars


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 Post subject: Re: Desktop lamp of colored stones
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:57 am 
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I just forgot....

I don't have a monochromatic lightsource yet.
When a refractometer has a monochromatic filter, does that meen that i can just use a maglight, and still get a sharp reading?
I believe that no filter will be as good as a monochromatic light source.

Is this filter easy to install, and take out again? I have no idea how it works.

And can anyone recomment en good monochromatic light?

Thanks in advance

Lars


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 Post subject: Re: Desktop lamp of colored stones
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:59 pm 
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They are the same refractometer. And I suspect when (and IF) they get it back in stock it will be the same price as Jeff (the manufacturer ) sells it or more. He used to sell it for $475 but has raised his price probably because the GIA duplex II is so expensive.

He furnishes the GemPro with an interference monochromatic filter so you will get good readings with a mag light. You might also use a yellow LED flashlight. The filter slips into a slot at the back of the GemPro. More convenient than most other instruments.

The only real monochromatic lightsource is a real sodium lamp. These are hard to obtain but can be gotten. They do give razor sharp shadow lines and accurate (by definition) RI indices.

If you want help getting one send me a private message.( after you have made 10 posts, before which you will not be able to)
They are built by Osram and Phillips and those are the ones to look for in Europe.
Search ebay for "Sodium Spectral Lamp"
The venerable Gates/GE lamps (which GIA once sold) are not made anymore and do not have international transformers.

The Osram "Duka" Darkroom safelight has an Osram Na/10 lamp which is still available (all sodium lamps have very long operating lives) and you can take the diffuser off and arrange it for use with a refractometer.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Osram-Darkroom- ... 5d494917ab

http://www.lambdasys.com/product/LLE-2.htm

http://www.lambdasys.com/product/LLC-9.htm

There is a SOX 18 low pressure sodium lamp which you can find fixtures for and repurpose them. This will work well. Anything labeled HPS or high pressure sodium is totally unsuitable and useless.

https://www.google.com/#q=low+pressure+ ... ht+fixture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0NNw0PTrSw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9Lw2oV7nSc


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 Post subject: Re: Desktop lamp of colored stones
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:05 am 
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Thank again for the info. I really appreciate it :-)

For now i am having trouble getting the GemPro refractometer.
I used one at AIGS, and liked it better that the Duplex II, so i deceided that i will go for the GemPro.
I send Jeff an email some time ago, but i got no answer, so i wrote National Jewelers Supplier, and they answered that they were out of stock. So now i am running out of options :-(


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 Post subject: Re: Desktop lamp of colored stones
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:41 pm 
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Jeff can be difficult to get into touch with. I think he likes to go off into the woods or skiing in remote places.

But if you keep after him he will get in touch with you.

The alternative if you don't want to spend $1000 is to buy a used one on ebay.


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 Post subject: Re: Desktop lamp of colored stones
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:46 am 
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I thought about buying a used one, but i am a bit worried about buying used stuff i didn't see/test first.
i would perfer to get a new one, so i hope that Jeff didn't go off to deep in the woods ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Desktop lamp of colored stones
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:18 am 
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After advice from you guys, i am now set on a GemOro.
Does anyone have any experience with GemOro Elite 1067ZX?
It really suits my budget, and it seems like a scope i could use for some time before upgrading to a better one.

G4Lab>> Do you know if the 1067ZX also has a dual winding transformer or an automatic switching power supply.


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 Post subject: Re: Desktop lamp of colored stones
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:09 pm 
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I don't know whether they are dual voltage. The smaller 1030 pm is although it requires an internal connection to be changed.

A friend of mine has the model you mentioned here in my town. He is very happy with it. I think you are correct that you could live with it for a long time.

You could find a used GIA Gemolite for a similar price. It might be a preferable alternative. The old style ones can be had for less than $1,000. They may need an AC plug changed and a 220 volt rather than 120 volt bulb used. (referring to the ones that don't have variable brightness control)

You should email Sy Kessler.com and ask them about the power supply on their scope. Probably IS international. It's a recent design. The smaller one is dual windings.


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 Post subject: Re: Desktop lamp of colored stones
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:36 am 
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Thanks a lot :-)
I is probably just me, but i am not very keen on buying second hand equipment. So i will go for the GemOro.
I have send Sykessler a mail, and can't wait to place my order.


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