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 Post subject: Topaz frustration
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:38 am 
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This jewel was on sale yesterday in an auction house.
http://leclere-mdv.com/html/fiche.jsp?i ... =&r=&sold=

Image
The stone (which must be 10 carats or more) is announced as an amethyst. I went to examine it. Clearly it is a topaz (color, style of cutting, brilliancy, inclusions). I could not check the RI, but I am pretty sure it is a topaz.
I let a bid order for 1000 euros. But I was outbidded and the hammer price was 1200 euros (+ 27,6% fees).
I feel frustrated because I am sure the buyer bought the jewel for the setting and its diamonds, and will think forever that the center stone is a basic amethyst of no interest. While I would have appreciated it for the special beauty of this big topaz !

OK the stone is very flat and has a huge window, but I liked it nevertheless.


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 Post subject: Re: Topaz frustration
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:23 pm 
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I think it would be an unusual color for a topaz or not?

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 Post subject: Re: Topaz frustration
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:30 pm 
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Rare relatively speaking but not too unusual. Looks like the typical purple-pink "cyclamin" color that Katlang is famed for (but Brazil produces as well).

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 Post subject: Re: Topaz frustration
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:53 pm 
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Stephen Challener wrote:
Rare relatively speaking but not too unusual. Looks like the typical purple-pink "cyclamin" color that Katlang is famed for (but Brazil produces as well).


Yes, I know - bought a few years ago two cristals from an Idar-Oberstein cutter - both with a fracture parallel to the c-axis.

Got one included 4,75 ct stone from the first and from the second cristal 3 smaller and one clean 1,75 ct gem. I would call the color "cherry blossom". Orign is Katlang.

A clean 10 ct stone would be extremely rare. I understand Isi wanted this stone.

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 Post subject: Re: Topaz frustration
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:50 pm 
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Jewellery from the XIXth century enjoyed a lot brazilian topaz of this color.
https://shrubsole.com/products/sold-an- ... t-necklace

Actually I think the stone was more than 10 carats. :smt022


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 Post subject: Re: Topaz frustration
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:06 pm 
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Just remember, it was only topaz if you had bought it. If you didn't win it, it is amethyst all day long :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Topaz frustration
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:46 pm 
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The pendant is white gold, which wasn't patented until 1915.
I would think that the auction house would have had the sense to test the stone, no?

We see a lot of heated pink topaz in Georgian pieces, but they are always yellow gold and almost always foil backed.
Example:
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 Post subject: Re: Topaz frustration
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:17 am 
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@Barbra
I had several times the issue with different real auctionhouses which sold stones tested from their experts, that the stones where wrong classified.
Classified e.g. as kornerupine but was spodumen. classified as spinel, but was saphire...
But all of them took back the gems without discussion and confirmed my ID when I complaint.

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 Post subject: Re: Topaz frustration
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:02 am 
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Yes Barbra, I didn't say that the pendant was XIXth century, I just wanted to point out that this pink color of topaz was commonly used in some degree in former times.
I would say that this pendant was more from the years 1920-1930.
It definitely was a topaz, not an amethyst. No confusion possible when you have seen enough of both these stones. The inclusions were very typical for topaz.
Even from the picture you can guess that something is not consistent with amethyst. Which decided me to go an see it for real.

You would be surprised to know how many stones are misannounced or misrepresented in that kind of auction sales. A special effort of checking and lab testing is done by auctioneers on "major" stones like rubies, emeralds, sapphires, diamonds. But as to the rest... :roll:

There are not so many gemologists among the staff in their offices, although I have had quite a bunch of them as pupils.
And Arglthesheep is right. It is not rare that a sale is cancelled afterwards because the buyer has its item checked and it is not what is was supposed to be. I experienced it myself too !


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 Post subject: Re: Topaz frustration
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:31 pm 
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Not only in auction...

In mineral shows too...

large sinhalite --> a zircon
another sinhalite --> a large 10 ct andalusite
chrysoberyl --> a sapphire ( but with a typical chryso color)
rhodolite mixed in spinel lot ( several times!)
4 little Taaffeite --> one a sapphire, one a greyish mauve "tanzanite"

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 Post subject: Re: Topaz frustration
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:04 pm 
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arglthesheep wrote:
Classified e.g. as kornerupine but was spodumen

This is interesting. What color?

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 Post subject: Re: Topaz frustration
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:33 pm 
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Stephen Challener wrote:
arglthesheep wrote:
Classified e.g. as kornerupine but was spodumen

This is interesting. What color?


Stone was sold as kornerupine - around 30 ct ( first red flag ).

It was a Tryphane - straw yellow spodumen ( LW UV pink) - maybe a kunzite in former life...

We discussed it here aroung 1 and a half year ago.

There is pale yellow kornerupine from Sri Lanka - nice material..
But never 30 ct.

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 Post subject: Re: Topaz frustration
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:45 pm 
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Oh yes, I remember this now. I was hoping for one of the rarer overlaps--dark yellowgreen or green-purple dichroism.

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 Post subject: Re: Topaz frustration
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:24 pm 
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@Stephen
yes there are nice ones out there. Just aquired lately a lot of smaller stones from the bluegreen variety.
not often seen in the past... Very similiar as the nice blue Euclase...

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 Post subject: Re: Topaz frustration
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:21 pm 
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arglthesheep wrote:
@Stephen
yes there are nice ones out there. Just aquired lately a lot of smaller stones from the bluegreen variety.
not often seen in the past... Very similiar as the nice blue Euclase...


Come on - post a picture of the lot... :D

Most of them are pear shapes around 0,20 ct in different orientations - face green, bluegreen, violetblue ....

Chrome kornerupine has imo a spectacular pleochroism.

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