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 Post subject: How many times have you found mistakes?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:54 pm 
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I consider myself as someone who has a beginner-to-intermediate knowledge of gemology. Think of me as your average "noob" or "wuffo".

However, several times in the last year or so, I have found mistakes in a couple of books and occasionally online. So I'm kind of curious: Have any other beginner or amateur gemologist noticed any errors?

To be fair, this question is initially off limits to the experts! If you are a GG or FGA or a moderator, that means you! You already know way too much :lol: :lol: So let's say after 10 days (after September 20), you can also join the fray. I would be disappointed if you didn't and surprised if you didn't have a bigger list than us rookies.

Here are the ones I have noticed.

On the cover of Gemstones by Cally Hall, either the picture or the name of the second gemstone on the first row is incorrect. The picture is citrine while it is labeled as being azurite. Or maybe it's the world's first transparent, yellow azurite!

On page 21 of Rocks and Minerals by Chris Pellant, gypsum is used as an example of a sulfide. The copy is correct in describing sulfates in general. It's just the title is wrong.

Coincidentally, both of these books are part of the DK Smithsonian Handbook series. See what happens when the government gets involved :roll:

Since Barbara Smigel has already pointed out the error for the useage of carat vs. karat in Gems and Precious Stones by Kennie Lyman, this one is a given.

I don't remember the website now but there was one that called red beryl bixbyite instead of bixbite.

O.K. Who else has any?


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 Post subject: Re: How many times have you found mistakes?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:33 am 
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Here are a couple that fall into the gray area. By gray area, I feel the author(s), could have been a little more thorough in explaining a point or the missing information is critical to the subject.

If any beginner gemologist hasn't already purchased a copy of Gemmology by Peter Read, run don't walk to your nearest mega-bookstore or favorite online outlet. I may have learned more from this book than all the others combined.

On page 28, he lists the four primary groups of minerals for gemmological purposes (the British spelling): oxides, silicates, phosphates and carbonates.

Cool. Yet, it occurred to me later than fluoride is a halide and pyrite and sphalerite are each sulfides. Since there is extra empty white space on this page, why couldn't these be mentioned as exceptions?

Here's another one from a DK Smithsonian publication. A mineral collector/dealer friend of mine (He has a PhD in chemistry), thinks the DK Smithsonian books are the worst for accuracy of information. They do have nice photography.

I was recently in a bookstore and Rock and Gem was on sale for $8. So I grabbed it. When I looked for quartz in the section on oxides, it wasn't there. It was in the chapter on silicates on page 218. While there is a nice explanation of the different forms of silicates, there isn't any information on why quartz isn't classified as an oxide.

I then notice on mindat.org that quartz has this information - which only confused this wuffo.

Nickel-Strunz 10th (pending) edition ID: 4.DA.05

4 : OXIDES (Hydroxides, V[5,6] vanadates, arsenites, antimonites, bismuthites, sulfites, selenites, tellurites, iodates)
D : Metal: Oxygen = 1:2 and similar
A : With small cations: Silica family

Dana 7th edition ID: 75.1.3.1
Dana 8th edition ID: 75.1.3.1

75 : TECTOSILICATES Si Tetrahedral Frameworks
1 : Si Tetrahedral Frameworks - SiO2 with [4] coordinated Si


So it would have nice to have more information in this instance.

I realize editing and editors always play a role in the content included in any publication. In the first example, the lack of information is relevant to a few common gemstones. In the second example, it's just plain confusing.


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 Post subject: Re: How many times have you found mistakes?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:55 pm 
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Hello skycritter, I have done a lot of reading and research in the last four years regarding gemology, gems, and jewelry. I am not able to say that I have found mistakes, but sometimes the definitons authors use are not precise enough. I found the book "Gemstones of the World" by Schumann excellent for short precise definitions. For example from page 14 - "Since, with few exceptions, most gemstones are minerals, it is the origin and structure of minerals that concerns the gemologist.....The chemical composition of the minerals is shown by a formula. Impurities are not included in this formula, even where they cause the color of the stone." Others I have found accurate, Handbook of Gem Identification , by Liddicoat, or Robert Webster "Practical Gemmology". And a host of others that go unnamed; but respected websites like this one usually offers good links to books and info are helpful to an aspiring gemologist.

This description is from page 116 of Practical Gemmology.
Quartz - Oxide of silicon (silica) (Si02) may be divided into two groups, the crystalline and cryptocrystalline.
The chemical composition tells us the elements is is made from, but even after learning those descriptions you will still need good books to help learn how to use the tools to identify the various minerals.

The books I like best contain identification facts such as specific gravity, RI and other identifying features, here I have read various measurement ranges, (SG, RI,) from different authors. But since each gem will be measured using several tools, all the info together helps determine the type of gem or the type of gem it is not, which is sometimes easier than determining what the gem is.... : 8)


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 Post subject: Re: How many times have you found mistakes?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:28 am 
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When I find a textbook without at least one error or mistaken statement, I will let the world know. However, I don't think that finding an error necessarily makes the text bad, just that probably several people who reviewed the text also missed the same thing.

John

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Web: http://handmadeartists.com/shop/rasmussengems
Blog: http://rasmussengemsandjewelryllc.blogspot.com/


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 Post subject: Re: How many times have you found mistakes?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:17 am 
gemlover wrote:
When I find a textbook without at least one error or mistaken statement, I will let the world know. However, I don't think that finding an error necessarily makes the text bad, just that probably several people who reviewed the text also missed the same thing.

John


I agree John. One can, for example, find errors in both 'Gemmology' and 'Gems' but that does not alter the fact that these are two very significant works of reference. Unlike (for example) my postings here, the text of any book from a good publisher is scrutinised editorially and proof-read several times for both content and typographical accuracy. Yet mistakes, sometimes embarrassing ones, still occasionally get through into print.

What is written should be a guide to wise men but thought to be law only by fools.


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 Post subject: Re: How many times have you found mistakes?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:09 am 
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With a background in journalism in another life, I certainly understand that mistakes and errors creep into any written work. If the overall accuracy of the information is correct, it usually doesn't distract from the value of the work.

What is not acceptable is for the mistake to be repeated throughout multiple editions. "Gemstones" was reprinted with corrections in 2000 yet no one noticed a very glaring mistake on the front cover. I also firmly believe that the more fundamental a text, the less acceptable it is for mistakes to be present. An entry level textbook filled with errors is essentially worthless. (This isn't the case with most books yet worthy of mention).

The *whole* point of this thread is to see how much other beginner or amateur gemologists notice these errors. It was not intended for more knowledgeable parties to simply dismiss these mistakes as insignificant. Some of us are still beginners and rely on written works probably a bit more than the more experienced to build up our knowledge base.

In my case, I live in a small town and the only person with any gemology knowledge is a total sexual intellectual. I was really hoping to avoid that same problem here.

If any of these books were so erroneous, I would simply burn them. They all have value despite the small mistakes.

Think of this thread as a fun and easy way for us - rookies, noobs and wuffos - to test our knowledge. Ideally, I was hoping other low hour gemologists, would pipe in with "Yeah, I noticed that too" or "Did you see.............".


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 Post subject: Re: How many times have you found mistakes?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:41 am 
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Perhaps, it would be wiser to bring these issues up with the publishers of the books.
What is the purpose of pointing them out here?
How does that accomplish anything?


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 Post subject: Re: How many times have you found mistakes?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:42 pm 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
Perhaps, it would be wiser to bring these issues up with the publishers of the books.
What is the purpose of pointing them out here?
How does that accomplish anything?


Several years ago I sent a message to Dorling Kindersley about the error on the cover of Gemstones but never received a reply.

Since this is a gemology forum :roll: I figured there was value in sharing the incorrect gemological knowledge. Hopefully, this would accomplish/prevent someone from repeating the same error or from being frustrated with contradictory information.

Quote:
Beginners Only!
For those who are new to gemology. Just getting started in the industry and have a question about the basics? No question is too small to answer.


Barbara O. Ellis, GG wrote:
No one should be afraid to ask a question here ... I've already asked all the "stupid" ones a body could think up. Although, come to think of it ... I'll probably come up with a few more before long .


RockLobstah wrote:
Also keep in mind a lot of regulars answer questions and comment in a familiar sense intended for regulars on here they already know. So when things might get intense (oh yea, baby!) it's not meant to dissuade new members/readers.


Based on the above I fully expected some type of discussion of any point or subject that a beginner gemologists encountered. Now instead expanding my knowledge about tectosilicates for example, this has turned into a lesson about elitist snobbery.

I guess there are some questions "too small" for this section of the forum. My bad. I'll refrain from posting any more here.


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 Post subject: Re: How many times have you found mistakes?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:01 pm 
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It seems like the only snobbery is coming from you.


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 Post subject: Re: How many times have you found mistakes?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:05 pm 
skycritter wrote:
........ Ideally, I was hoping other low hour gemologists, would pipe in with "Yeah, I noticed that too" or "Did you see.............".


Well, there's a famous howler, sometimes attributed to Read but, I have it on good authority, actually should be attributed to Robert Webster. With reference to removing detritus from a specimen under the microscope, he once wrote that it should be removed with a 'camel's hairbrush' :lol: Freudian slip or what?? :smt105 Been there; done that and bought the T shirt - and so have most of us at some time or another.

But, to paraphrase Barbra, so its a good little joke but what is achieved by bringing it into this forum? Capiche?

P.S. Since you joined GO in 2006, you have at least four years' seniority in gemmo interests over me - and we are both amateurs. :wink: Definitions..... An well-experienced amateur - such as your good self - does it for fun; a professional does it for money. Whether a professional necessarily does it better than an experienced amateur is something you (wearing body armour) might wish to discuss with your lady wife behind closed doors :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: How many times have you found mistakes?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:33 pm 
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PS...I've had excellent luck with publishers forwarding notes to authors.
I've heard back every time I've sent a note.

Folks finding misprints and errors would provide a great service informing authors and publishers. :D


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 Post subject: Re: How many times have you found mistakes?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:43 pm 
Kerensky wrote:
Definitions..... An well-experienced amateur - such as your good self - does it for fun; a professional does it for money. Whether a professional necessarily does it better than an experienced amateur is something you (wearing body armour) might wish to discuss with your lady wife behind closed doors :wink:


ImageImage :smt044 :smt082


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 Post subject: good work
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:56 am 
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there are was good work !


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 Post subject: Re: How many times have you found mistakes?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:53 am 
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Should the post above be in green?


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 Post subject: Re: How many times have you found mistakes?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:03 pm 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
PS...I've had excellent luck with publishers forwarding notes to authors.
I've heard back every time I've sent a note.

Folks finding misprints and errors would provide a great service informing authors and publishers. :D

Agreed, but I have had mixed results. One well-known author of a rockhounding book not only didn't respond to corrections, but seemed insulted when I talked to him at a show.
OTOH, the publisher of a book on graphics programming actually gave me a contract to clean up the mistakes I pointed out.


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