January 24 Through February 4—TUCSON, ARIZONA: Annual show
Welcome to the GemologyOnline.com Forum
A non-profit Forum for the exchange of gemological ideas
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:58 am

All times are UTC - 4 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: cabochon machine help please
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:23 am 
Offline
New to the Forum or The Quiet Type

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:53 am
Posts: 7
hi there,
I am looking to upgrade my cabochon machine and am struggling with what to buy? What is a good machine? I am currently thinking of buying individual parts and building it my self. I am thinking of 6 wheel 6 inch. is this good? And what wheels would you guys put on it? I have a budget so cannot go stupid with it, but i would like to end up with a very nice machine and not a shoddy piece of junk. i am looking at the 1500 dollar mark max. thanks for any help peeps


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: cabochon machine help please
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:09 pm 
Offline
Valued Contributor

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:47 am
Posts: 455
Location: Las Vegas
Have your researched what types are available? $1500 is a great budget. If you save just a little longer you can get a brand new Diamond Pacific Genie which many will say is the best machine available. The CabKing has been getting many good reviews and comes in under you budget. I just started messing around with cabbing so I can't give you much what to do advice but I did look all over the web for my options. Check out the Cabking 6 inch wheel model. Comes with all the wheels and pretty much everything you need. Good luck!


Justin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: cabochon machine help please
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:59 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:44 pm
Posts: 1079
Location: Washington State
With a $1500 budget you could buy a very nice used faceting machine and use it to make cabs as well. I got rid of my cabbing stuff years ago and use my faceting machine for everything, (except sawing, for which I use an old trim saw with a thin blade. One benefit is that using a faceting machine makes roughing high dome cabs to shape very easy and completely symmetrical. It also allows one to make intarsia style pieces and cabs which are assembled from multiple pieces, (the glue lines being so flat as to be nearly invisible).

If you're hot to make a horizontal arbor yourself I would consider using something like this: http://www.grizzly.com/products/Buffing-Assembly/H3559 Disassemble it, take the shaft to a machine shop and have them continue the threaded portion on each side and spend the rest of your money on some good wheels. Using this sort of machine would allow you to drive it with a DC motor which can be easily controlled giving you a wider range of speed options. Of course you're then going to have to fiddle around making some spray shields, but it's fairly easy to imagine the use of a large diameter plastic pipe with appropriate cutouts. PVC bends easily when heated a bit with a torch, so some saw cut slits a a little creative bending gives you a fitted, professional looking shield.

_________________
Michael E.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: cabochon machine help please
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:06 pm 
Offline
Gemology Online Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:18 am
Posts: 595
Location: Madrid, Spain
My vote is for CabKing too! Very good quality at very reasonable price!

_________________
http://gem-sphalerite.com
http://gems-inclusions.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: cabochon machine help please
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:29 pm 
Offline
Gemology Online Übergoddess
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:13 pm
Posts: 5077
Location: Australia
Yup another vote Cabking.
Ron's Rocks on fleabay always has good deals. His latest also comes with the trim saw attachment and free shipping in the US for $1569.
Without trim saw but still free shipping $1399
There is an 8" model now, wider spacing between wheels $2399 (free ship and the trim saw)

_________________
Keep em comin!!! :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: cabochon machine help please
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:56 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:15 pm
Posts: 1795
Location: canada
I still vote for the the inland 8i-all-in-wondeer

Partnered with 3m flex laps with a neoprene backer there is a give to then that helps you to cab. for final polish of 100,000 grit diamond there are numerous options gearloose combo laps lightening laps groed for cab .. etc. and it is also able to put out decent squares ...triangle ... any of teh geometric shapes (cushions etc) Gearlooses laps. Am also going to try the mousepad backing as well

Anyway just my thoughts ( I just changed over to the 3m laps haven't tried them yet still unpacking and building shelves

George

_________________
A Chinese proverb says "Gold is valuable, Jade is Priceless."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: cabochon machine help please
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:24 am 
Offline
Gemology Online Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:19 pm
Posts: 590
Location: Las Vegas, NV
I was lucky and found a used DP Pixie for a ridiculously good price from a good friend of mine. I use it heavily and it took my cutting to a higher level. But, I did cut stones on a Dremmel before that, so anything would have been a step up. If I were to go back and do it all again (with a $1500 budget), i'd either go with a faceting machine as Michael_E suggested, or I'd build myself a rock-solid unit out of metal. Nothing against Diamond Pacific, but the material they use on some of their machines just makes me uncomfortable. The whole top case of the Pixie is a composite material. I've had to rebuild and reinforce the little flange that secures the air pump because the screws split it. I do not like that. Had I payed full price for it I would have been pretty unhappy of a customer. Granted, someone who tinkered with it previously might have cranked the screws down a bit too hard, but even doing routine maintenance or replacing wheels I feel I have to have a light hand with the fasteners because I don't want to break anything. I don't like that. Also, the base is particle board, with melamine on top and edge-banding around it. I know there's not many more materials to make it out of, but as a former fine-woodworker and cabinet maker I HATE particle board. It's too easy to get it wet and make it swell and it's just not strong. The Genies at the local Rock Club's workshop have the same bases, and they are water damaged like crazy! Also, the hoods that cover the wheels are some composite plastic material and are cracked, warped or damaged by misuse. I just don't like it. I don't like things that seem fragile. I want my machines and equipment to stand up to heavy use. Other than that, they are good machines, have been around for a while and I've had no real issues with mine mechanically. BUT, I would have preferred to build my own. You can buy a shaft, really good sealed bearings and some pulleys with belts plus a good motor for a decent price. You can have a machine shop mill you the brackets to support the shaft out of aluminum, and have an aluminum fabricator weld you a box to house everything. In my case, i'd do all that myself- I have friends with the equipment and stuff, but not everyone has that ability. I have not priced this myself. It will not be "cheap". But you can have yourself a machine that is bullet proof and will last a long time. Of course, some engineering a mechanical background is ideal for this project, but it can be done.

Also, if you can find any decent cabbing machine on the used market for a good price, it's a good thing to jump on. Diamond Pacific machines are all I know, and IF maintained properly and used correctly, should last who knows how long. Mine is just fine despite it's damage. I'm just careful with the water and how tight I have screws. I keep an eye on everything (especially the air pump) and make sure it's clean and lubricated. They're good little machines- They work. They're basically just a shaft connected to a motor though.. so it's not too hard to make it work well. :)

I use NOVA wheels, that's all I know and I find them easy to use and they produce a nice finish. I have a ton of polish pads, from standard canvas, felt and leather to home made ones for special applications. Another good thing about Diamond Pacific machines (the others too maybe. I have no experience with them) is that they have all kinds of crap you can screw onto the end of the shaft. Polish pads, flat grinding "laps", even polish buff spindles and similar things. I do like that very much. I'd definitely stick with 6 inch wheels. I have 4 inch and while they are cheaper to buy, they are small.

Good luck on finding your perfect machine!

_________________
-Ryan Quantz, A.J.P. (GIA)
-Lapidary and Jewelry Artist
http://www.etsy.com/shop/RyanQuantzStudios


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: cabochon machine help please
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:12 am 
Offline
New to the Forum or The Quiet Type

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:53 am
Posts: 7
ok. now im excited!!! I am very turned on to the idea of a faceting machine!!! . A faceting machine is my dream!!! I have been trying to search for faceting machines, cabochon machine, sphere carving machines etc for a long time. i didnt know it would be fine to use a faceting machine for both. i guess i though it was a bit like using a chisel as a screwdriver. but if you guys are doing it then i am very excited and relieved!!!! The problem i am having to be honest is that when it comes to this amount of money, i am frightened. i am scared of spending daft amounts of cash and getting a bad deal. like above mentioned with the screw that split. i would have screamed if that had happened to me. Please would you guys let me know of where i might pick up a faceting machine at a decent price that is a good machine! one other problem i have is that i am in england and have to pay a huge shipping cost. i have seen a 900 dollar postal cost! lol
so... what are the best faceting machines?? and where can i buy one at a decent price? Also, are the laps universal for them or do you have to buy them from the company?
i would much rather have a faceting machine for both cabbing and faceting than buy a cab machine and then decide in the future that i want a faceting machine anyway. which i do.

thanks peeps. im gonna smile today! youve made me happy! :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: cabochon machine help please
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:35 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:04 pm
Posts: 1642
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Uhmmm... I do a few cabs on my faceting machine, and I make some of my cabbing laps for polishing and sanding myself (out of sandpaper, mousepads, old CD's, kevlar tissue, felt, leather, etc). It is possible and rather easy, but I won't suggest this approach for a serious cabber planning to cut many cabs a week... But you can get nice results this way, nevertheless.

I also tried a couple of times a "true" cabbing machine. I find those machines quite faster, easier for working, especially on big pieces (but keep in mind I've 6' laps on my faceting machine), I can get easier rounded shapes/domes, and it'spossible to do concave shapes (very useful for knife scales or odd shapes, for example).
So, if you are interested only in cabbing, I'd suggest a proper cabbing machine. Which one, I don't know. :)
Some of the cabbing machines have also a convenient trim-saw attachment, and a trim-saw it's definitely needed. If you have a faceting machine, you need a separate trim-saw. On the other hand, the only real advantage I see in flat laps is that you can easily cut straight lines, so if you plan to make intarsia and such, you may consider this (I hear you can attach flat laps on one side of most cabbing machines, btw).
Here you can also find some other educated reviews and opinions on various cabbing machines and some how-to's about building your own.

_________________
https://www.instagram.com/marcovoltolinifaceting/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: cabochon machine help please
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:13 pm 
Offline
Gemology Online Übergoddess
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:13 pm
Posts: 5077
Location: Australia
In the UK the Raytech shaw, platform facet machine can be purchased through Manchester minerals.
Brad Amos is a dealer for for one of the mast style. His details are on the UK facet guild web site.
Keep an eye on your ebay, they do come up but not often.
Maybe check out some of the bigger rock and gem shows you have over there.
the Raytech is closer to your budget but you will still need to add dollars.
Graves are close to your budget too but you would need to ask them for closest dealer.

_________________
Keep em comin!!! :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: cabochon machine help please
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:13 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:20 am
Posts: 2756
Location: Southern California, U.S.A.
igrith,

After doing a Google search I'm a bit shocked at the apparent dearth of lapidary equipment dealers in the UK. I was able to find only one stocking cab machine supplier. Maybe there are others but you might take a look at this Inland machine available from a dealer in Sussex: http://www.inland.co.uk/product.cfm?pid=240

I have no direct experience with the unit -- I use a 25-year-old Genie -- but it might suit your needs.

Considering the cost of importing equipment, if I were you I'd seek advice/input from other lapidaries in the UK. I'd definitely contact Dr. Brad Amos as suggested by Mehoose. He's a fine gent and my contacts with him have been helpful and amiable.

Local lapidary clubs might be your best source for finding new and used machinery or tips on how to make your own. Here's a list of a few UK clubs (no guarantees that all the links will work but it gives you a starting place:

Essex Rock & Mineral Society - Hopwa House, Inskip Drive, Hornchurch, Essex
Website: http://www.erms.org/

Sidcup Lapidary and Mineral Society - Sidcup Arts Centre (Room 26)
Alma Road Sidcup, Kent, DA14 4ED
Tel 020 8300 1056

Norfolk Mineral & Lapidary Society – CLUBROOM Catholic Church Hall, Churchfield Green St.Williams Way, Thorpe St.Andrew, Norwich.

Bristol And District Lapidary Society - 62 Lays Dr., Keynsham

Kingston Lapidary Society - 3 Southern Dr., Hull, East Yorkshire

The Scottish Mineral & Lapidary Club - 20 MARITIME LANE, LEITH, EDINBURGH,
EH6 6RZ

Sussex Mineral & Lapidary Society - Website: http://www.smls.org.uk

_________________
Rick Martin

www.artcutgems.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: cabochon machine help please
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:38 am 
Offline
New to the Forum or The Quiet Type

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:53 am
Posts: 7
ok, thanks peeps. It is so true that there is next to nothing in britain to buy. i have seen the inland swap top machine. i was considering it until i read the reviews on it. it has really bad reviews, saying the motor blows quickly and that the machine is only for light use. multiple similar complaints.
so...
genie or cabking. Assuming that faceting machine for both is no good. as i do want to use it heavily. i would like to acquire a faceting machine at some point, but not primarily.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: cabochon machine help please
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:51 am 
Offline
Valued Contributor

Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:21 am
Posts: 421
Location: Australia
I built my own cabbing machine. It's not hard but needs work and a bit of thought before you start. My first model was workable but needed a lot of refinement and was noisy as all hell. I used it for a couple of months before I had the time to build mk2. I have been using mk2 for a few years now. Mk2 is a 6 inch machine. That size has always been sufficient fro my needs.It has been mainly a silicon carbide machine. I am currently changing over to diamond as consumables wear out. (ie sintered diamond grinding wheels instead of SiC grinding wheels and diamond belts in place of SiC belts.)

The splash pan for mk2 was built from some old computer cases. I mounted the splash tray and motor in an old art desk I purchased from a local school. The desk had to be cut down and modified for the purpose. The 1 inch square tube I cut from the desk frame was used to make the framework to mount the shaft bearings. I made the shaft from a car tail shaft (obtained from an old car dumped in a gully on a local farmers land). I purchased a sewing machine motor from a junk dealer ($5) to run the whole rig. I use a gravity feed water system to supply coolant. The bare rig cost about $30 (including consumables such as angle grinder discs and welding rods) about two days worth of labour, several skinned knuckles a few burns and great deal of sweating and grunting.

Outfitting the rig with silicon carbide grinding wheels and belts and expandable drums cost just over $400.

If you are interested in building your won machine pm me and I am happy to talk design.

_________________
It’s still magic even if you know how it’s done.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: cabochon machine help please
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:07 am 
Offline
New to the Forum or The Quiet Type

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:53 am
Posts: 7
thankyou for all of you responses! you have all been mega helpful. :)

I am going to go for the kabking or the genie. I have decided this because, i cant cope with the feeling of disapointment when you get something shoddy. As, you get what you pay for.

i am fairly clueless about the types of wheel. i understand, ''technically'' but not ''hands on''

is this any good? price and parts?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-GENIE-GEM-M ... 203wt_1054

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CABKING-6V3-6 ... 2117wt_354


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: cabochon machine help please
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:04 am 
Offline
Gemology Online Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:19 pm
Posts: 590
Location: Las Vegas, NV
A friend of mine has leads on a 1200 Genie. Used. Has he contacted you? If not, send me a PM and i'll forward you the information.

_________________
-Ryan Quantz, A.J.P. (GIA)
-Lapidary and Jewelry Artist
http://www.etsy.com/shop/RyanQuantzStudios


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 41 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Gemology Style ported to phpBB3 by Christian Bullock