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 Post subject: Gold coin jewellery
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:48 pm 
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I'm appraising this piece of jewellery with a gold coin from Venezuela. Does anyone have any suggestions as to where I can get some info on this coin. I've spent a pile of time searching on the internet and have come up with very little. I'd prefer not to take it out of it's mount to weigh it.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:14 am 
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Maybe a picture might help.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:11 am 
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The url is http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4286824111 and the images are 7 and 8

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:57 am 
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From http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:JS8BiO9LhAYJ:www.coinsite.com/content/cdanswers/cdarchive54.asp+Venezuela+Caciques+coin+medallion&hl=en

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Question: Doctor please help me! I recently lost a few coins that belonged to some very close friends. The coin is the "caciques of Venezuela" by the Inter-change bank of switzerland. It has a picture of a head of an indian chief "guaicaipuro". How much should I expect to pay for one of these, where could I find one, how old are they? I greatly appreciate any help, thank you.

The Venezuelan Local Chiefs Series (Caciques de Venezuela) were gold trade units made in Switzerland for Venezuela in about 1955. You might check with bullion dealers in your area. "Caciques of Venezuela" are generally available at close to their gold content (about 1/4 to 2/3 troy ounce of gold or about US $65 to about $175 per coin depending on the size).


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What are the "Caciques de Venezuela" gold coins? I have seen a reference to a minting in Switzerland for the National Bank of Venezuela in about 1955 I have seen six different "sizes" (both diameter and gold gr content) How many different, size and weight, were there? How many of each were minted? Who might have them for sale now?

"Caciques" means "Chiefs" and all of these wonderful gold trade units has a portrait of a Venezuelan Indian Chief. They were minted in Switzerland by the Inter-change Bank Suiza for Venezuela. The sizes were made to be interchangeable with European gold coins. In 1955 gold was still the money of choice by which countries paid their bills. The largest Caciques unit weighs 22.2 grams of .900 fine gold (.6430 troy oz pure).

These gold tokens can often be found at gold bullion houses or even at local coin shows. Unfortunately, many of these beautiful tokens have been melted over the years for their gold content.


Hope that points you in the right direction...


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:09 pm 
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Dave the problem is that we need to login on the website in order to see the picture. So it will not show up. Maybe try ImageShack or some other host.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:39 pm 
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You don't need to log in, just click on view album and then choose the picture number from the drop down menu.

Anyways, I loaded them into Imageshack, so:

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:47 pm 
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Thanks africanuck...for posting the images and for the info from the Coin Doctor. Coinsite is the first place I check for info on coins...the letters to the CoinDoc helped, but unfortunately, other than that and a few little tidbits here and there, there's not too much background on the "Chiefs" coin set.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:59 pm 
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I did come across some people selling them, one guy had 3, mint condition estimated at 300 - 450.

That said, if they go for more or less their weight in gold it should be relatively easy to calculate.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:16 pm 
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They are set so they are killed. Unless they are rare, they only have weight value.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:39 pm 
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Doos wrote:
They are set so they are killed. Unless they are rare, they only have weight value.


If the intended use of the appraisal is to bind an insurance policy then the value definition is going to be something like this:

“The necessary funding required to allow the piece to be replaced in a reasonable amount of time and in the the relevant marketplace with another of like kind and quality with similar materials, age, authorship and condition.”

Assuming that you can’t find a secondary market where you can reasonably purchase a comparable piece that complies with the above definition, and assuming that the original manufacturer is either no longer available or unable to replace the piece, it will be necessary to fund a custom replacement. This means buying one of those coins. Although it’s true that the marketable numismatic value is destroyed by making it into jewelry, it is unlikely that you will be able to find a similarly damaged piece with which to make the replacement and the new coin will have to come from dealers in this sort of coin.

Neil

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 3:48 pm 
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neil wrote:
Doos wrote:
They are set so they are killed. Unless they are rare, they only have weight value.


If the intended use of the appraisal is to bind an insurance policy then the value definition is going to be something like this:

“The necessary funding required to allow the piece to be replaced in a reasonable amount of time and in the the relevant marketplace with another of like kind and quality with similar materials, age, authorship and condition.”

Assuming that you can’t find a secondary market where you can reasonably purchase a comparable piece that complies with the above definition, and assuming that the original manufacturer is either no longer available or unable to replace the piece, it will be necessary to fund a custom replacement. This means buying one of those coins. Although it’s true that the marketable numismatic value is destroyed by making it into jewelry, it is unlikely that you will be able to find a similarly damaged piece with which to make the replacement and the new coin will have to come from dealers in this sort of coin.

Neil


Great point Neil...as usual :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 3:58 pm 
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Dave,

Thanks. By the way, that's a pretty cool piece. What is it? I presume it's a pendant but I don't see a finding. Is it fabricated?

Neil

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 4:25 pm 
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It was supposedly a "custom-made" pendant made for the client 45 years ago in Caracus, Venezuela...no markings on the setting, but electronically tests at 21K or more....It has been cast with coin mounting and jump ring bale soldered to it....about 7.5 grams total weight.

BTW, this is the piece referred to in an earlier Appraiser's Corner thread I started titled "insurance value AND a FMV"

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:04 pm 
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This is a terrific example of why it's important to pay attention to your definition of value and why it can be different from one appraisal to the next. The budget to reproduce this thing is going to be wildly different from it's expected resale value and both will be different from the expected asking prices in stores that sell similar items.

Neil

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