CIBJO releases Gemmological Special Report: considers process of separating measurable facts from opinion; See Gemological Articles below.
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 Post subject: Appraisal vs Auction Price
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:44 pm 
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Hello,

here are 2 zircons, the 34 carat zircon value was said to be 3400 usd. It is a 34 carat zircon, natural. Nice blue color, hints of green depeding on the light but strong blue. It appraised for about 100 dollars a carat but I saw a zircon with what looks like a lighter blue sell at Bonhams for 23,000 usd although being slightly larger at 40 carats. why such a huge price difference?

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24276/lot/2477/
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 Post subject: Re: Appraisal vs Auction Price
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:50 am 
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Colored stone prices are not firm or standardized, auction prices doubly so. Sounds like Bonhams might be a good venue for such a stone though!

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 Post subject: Re: Appraisal vs Auction Price
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:27 am 
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Thanks for the info, Bonhams would be great, is the process of bonhams selling your gems very difficult?


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 Post subject: Re: Appraisal vs Auction Price
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:39 am 
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Not difficult at all.
Contact Bonhams Natural History.
http://www.bonhams.com/departments/NAT/ ... =sale&m1=1

When doing an appraisal one has to clearly define the market for value.

Comps are based on what?
Auction values?
GemGuide pricing?
Online: Ebay, Etsy?
Naming retail stores which stock large loose zircon?


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 Post subject: Re: Appraisal vs Auction Price
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:16 pm 
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I think it should be as they seem to be getting higher prices than the books appraisers are using these days. The appraiser opens the book, looks at the price per carat and multiplies the price by the size of the stone. When in reality, in the market in Bangkok anyways, a 10- 20 carat stone value for zircon for example is "say" 50 dollars per carat, when the same stone in a 30 carat up size, which is very rare, would cost in the 100's per carat, as the auction prices for these large 30 plus carat stones are much higher as well, as in the example i have shown.

but appraisers just seem to open whatever books they use and see its about 100 per carat wholesale and multiple a 10 ct or 30 carat stone by that price. in reality a 10 carat stone is not expensive at all in the Bangkok market but a 30 carat stone is extremely high and the auction houses seem to back up those prices. So you cant just multiply the size by the carat size for ten plus stones but they seem to for large ones. no premium value added.

I just had a few stones appraised and was a bit confused as to the appraisers methods.

Image
these 3 stones appraised for almost the same price, even though one is 20 carats, 34 carats, and 22 carats, but the 30 carat one n the middle is quite large and my cost was much higher, triple- the auctions for large stones in 30 plus also seem to be quite a lot higher as the previous one i showed sold for 23,000 usd although it was 40 carats.

they appraised for about 3000 usd each wholesale, all of them, the apppraiser said the 34 carat was a bit darker toned and had a bit of green in it, so it was all the same price. well, anyways, just confused.

i thought the 34 was higher as it had a royal blue color, which is very hard to find in large zircons as the colors usually fall through the stone in large sizes. ive never seen a large one with such rich blue color and ive looked a lot in bangkok. so i thought i had something very rare, but well, was told different. anyways, any feedback would be appreciated. thanks


Last edited by arms on Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Appraisal vs Auction Price
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:44 pm 
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Kinda sounds like the appraiser wasn't doing a very good job? I'm not an expert on appraising gems, but they sure don't look like stones of equal value to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Appraisal vs Auction Price
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:55 pm 
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in his defence, the light he was using really didnt do justice to the zircon, sunlight fires these gems up and other lights seem to bring out the green. Its complicated, every stone reacts differently to light as you all know, and that affects the appraisal. I dont think anything can replace sunlight.


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 Post subject: Re: Appraisal vs Auction Price
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:56 pm 
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They don't look the same to me either, but I can't really tell if the clarity of the bigger stone is good from the photo.


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 Post subject: Re: Appraisal vs Auction Price
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:44 pm 
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I made a video of my stone to show how light affects the zircons. so it really depends what light they use when they appraise them. huge difference. video quality not great after uploading, sorry about that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ootGBCBzTy8




cheers for the replies


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 Post subject: Re: Appraisal vs Auction Price
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:26 pm 
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re: appraisal
Where did the appraiser get "wholesale" comps for 25-35ct zircons?

$3000 each sounds like the figure was based on ............ :-k uhm, nothing.

Looking at a handful of auction values.
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24276/lot/2477/
Image

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24276/lot/2476/

Image

Online:
https://www.gemselect.com/zircon/zircon-337548.php
Image

AGS
https://www.ajsgem.com/blue-zircon-gems ... 40417.html
AGS wrote:
Blue is the most popular zircon color and fine blue zircon has more sparkle than any other blue stone in the gemstone world. The colors range from light to medium blue, sometimes with a slight greenish secondary hue. Blue zircon is produced by low temperature heating, but only the Cambodian and Burmese zircon will turn blue when heated. Prices depend on color saturation, clarity and size. Fine saturated blues in sizes over 10 carats are typically $300 to $400 per carat, while high quality stones in the 5 to 10 carat size sell for $200 to $300 per carat.


34cts x (let's compromise at $450/) =$15,300.


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 Post subject: Re: Appraisal vs Auction Price
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:19 pm 
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HI, Thats what I was thinking!

he checked some book, and stated the value to be about 100 a carat.

but, looking at auctions, i did my homework, and saw bigger stones are rare and command a higher price.

ive been to JTC in Bangkok and i couldnt find any large zircons over 30 cts, except 1 but the asking price was way too high, so i waited until one came my way, which took months, and finally got one, not cheap either, so i know they are hard to find. and smaller zircons are everywhere there, even up to 20 cts is quite common but not 30 plus, i think this has to do with their crystal structure, and the zircon dealer says the colors fall through easily if large, whatever that means.

anyways, thanks for the help on valuing larger zircons.


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 Post subject: Re: Appraisal vs Auction Price
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:27 pm 
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Hi arms.
Please ask the appraiser what book he referred to.
Thanks.
Zircon is not listed in GemGuide.


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 Post subject: Re: Appraisal vs Auction Price
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:47 pm 
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I'll have to ask him.

Im curious myself

Thanks for the replies!


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 Post subject: Re: Appraisal vs Auction Price
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:49 pm 
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why isnt it listed in gem guide?

a lot of people look at zircon and pass it off as a semiprecious and not valuable stone or diamond synthetic but seems prices are getting higher at bonhams, something to look out for.


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 Post subject: Re: Appraisal vs Auction Price
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:56 am 
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Drop them a note and ask. :D


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