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 Post subject: Re: where can I learn how to use FTIR
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:35 am 
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Kerensky wrote:
'Origin: 1770–80; < Italian, Latinized variant of conoscente (present participle of conoscere to know).


i'm sorry, this is the very first time i read that word, weird latinized variant of a language that comes from Latin.... :lol: .... have to say that word sounds very ugly to an italian motherlanguage, i'm sure it sounds like a mispronunciation to many italian folks unfamiliar with itaian latinized variants..... :lol:
sidenote, please if you want to add further comments about it let's start another thread in a more suitable section, i'm sure is not your intention (nor is mine) to hijack this one.

ciao
albé

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 Post subject: Re: where can I learn how to use FTIR
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:19 am 
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@Alberto
thanks I will buy the books
if you know any other books please let me know
i'm really appreciate it
@Mikko
If you think GG London is not solid foundation for asking about advanced gemology
please do tell me
I thought GIA is the best so far that why i went to GIA
Please tell me where can I get solid foundation
Please don't take it personally
I am from ASIA and I know nothing about advanced education about gemology
thanks


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 Post subject: Re: where can I learn how to use FTIR
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:00 am 
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Quote:
@Mikko
If you think GG London is not solid foundation for asking about advanced gemology
please do tell me


Thu, I think very opposite :D
I questioned it (there was question marks) because I feel you was receiving too much "learn gemology first"- type of answers. I suggest you proudly make a signature telling you are G.G.

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 Post subject: Re: where can I learn how to use FTIR
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:15 am 
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mikko wrote:
Thu, I think very opposite :D
I questioned it (there was question marks) because I feel you was receiving too much "learn gemology first"- type of answers.


sorry but i disagree a little on this. According to me Gemmo courses are not more than a starting point on the gemological learning curve and this is more true (IMHO) when dealing with treatments...... i saw too many confused GGs unable to properly id a treatment. Skill comes with practice practice and practice AND continue knowledge updating. i guess 20 yrs ago it could be done by reading G&G only..........Nowadays things are much more faster, i'm often already aware about many things i read on G&G when i browse the last issue.......and very often due to stuffs i've learned here..... :wink:
ciao
albé

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 Post subject: Re: where can I learn how to use FTIR
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:44 am 
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ohh sorry mikko
i didn't see Question mark
my bad
yes you are right I should be proud of myself as GG from GIA "London"
to be honest with you
I am from Burma, had quite a few knowledge about gems before I came to London
so when i was in GIA I could say I am top of the class
But my point is I still need further learning because i don't feel confidence
especially in determining treatments and Origin of gems
because GIA can give only foundation
My dream job is successful gemologist in gem lab
I am very eager to learn

If any of you guys can give me some advice
That will be great

thanks


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 Post subject: Re: where can I learn how to use FTIR
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:19 am 
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Are there no gem labs in Burma?
There are certainly a huge variety of gems originating from there.

You certainly are fluent in the language.


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 Post subject: Re: where can I learn how to use FTIR
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:30 am 
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yes we do have a few gemological lab with basic instruments
Now my country is getting change and gem association is now thinking to install high tech instruments like FTIR or Ramma etc...but most of the gemologist have no idea about advanced instruments
So I couldn't learn in my country about advanced instruments
I know the chef gemologist in my country we know each other very well
he don't even know how to use FTIR


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 Post subject: Re: where can I learn how to use FTIR
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:51 am 
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Quote:
sorry but i disagree a little on this. According to me Gemmo courses are not more than a starting point on the gemological learning curve and this is more true (IMHO) when dealing with treatments...... i saw too many confused GGs unable to properly id a treatment. Skill comes with practice practice and practice AND continue knowledge updating. i guess 20 yrs ago it could be done by reading G&G only..........Nowadays things are much more faster, i'm often already aware about many things i read on G&G when i browse the last issue.......and very often due to stuffs i've learned here.....


We don't disagree at all, Albé :D

21 years ago I was 19 years old youngster who thought now I'm somebody because of FGA diploma. Every day since that has been learning and I'm still at the beginning of the journey. I have always told my diploma students an FGA is just "license to learn". Nothing more.

However, anyone who has received one of the internationally recognized letters behind his/her name is entitled to ask the question "Where can I learn more". Thu has received very good answers about available scientific gemology courses. I think it's pointless to tell G.G to "go back to square one".

I'm also trained laboratory technician (three years of chemistry and lab techniques). I don't work in that field any more but the whole profession exists because not every scientist wants to spend the whole day with instruments and basic analyses. A good lab technician is not afraid to learn any tool given.

As gem labs has transformed to fully equipped scientific labs they have been forced to broaden their organization tree to different employee levels. If you want to work for gem lab your changes with only gemology degree are zero. If you can tell them "Sure, I learned to take FTIR spectra from diamond at SSEF, but to be honest I don't have full experience to interpret the results" your changes are bit more than that.

If one reads about gem lab stuff CVs one story becomes very familiar: He or she started here as a trainee / diamond grader but soon proved him/herself as a valuable member of our team. Not everyone of them has a PhD degree.

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 Post subject: Re: where can I learn how to use FTIR
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:53 pm 
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http://event1.thermoscientific.com/form ... WebinarReg

Here is a link to a Webinar that ThermoNicolet had last week. You can register for it and they will let you watch the recording of it.

It is largely a sales pitch which tries to show you how easy their gear is to use. We looked at their gear and passed on it because it could not get readings from some of the specimens we had. (Neither could Renishaw. Bruker was able to)

The Webinar make reference to their software and to plug ins that go with their software. Each of these things is thousands of extra dollars. The instrument they show is a Raman equipped with a microscope that probably is about $170,000


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 Post subject: Re: where can I learn how to use FTIR
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:07 am 
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mikko wrote:
We don't disagree at all, Albé :D


I'm very happy about that :D

Quote:
I have always told my diploma students an FGA is just "license to learn". Nothing more.


cool definition, i must remember that. 8)

Quote:
If you want to work for gem lab your changes with only gemology degree are zero. If you can tell them "Sure, I learned to take FTIR spectra from diamond at SSEF, but to be honest I don't have full experience to interpret the results" your changes are bit more than that.


yup, a little step ahead..

Quote:
If one reads about gem lab stuff CVs one story becomes very familiar: He or she started here as a trainee / diamond grader but soon proved him/herself as a valuable member of our team. Not everyone of them has a PhD degree.


yeah, did a little research about that and got unexpected results.... :wink:

ciao
albé

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 Post subject: Re: where can I learn how to use FTIR
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:45 pm 
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http://www.labx.com/v2/adsearch/adverti ... ent=112753

Here are some adverts from another company whose specialty is "low" cost Raman.
You can look at their offerings which are more compact than Bruker. They push the 532 laser which makes a lot of things fluoresce. However that is the wavelength Marty Haske uses for his photoluminescence arrangement.

Raman spectrophotometers can measure photoluminescence spectra.

Here is an ad for their "Rockhound" which they seem to be aiming at mineralogists.
I have been having correspondence with someone who does development work for GIAs research lab and he reports that he has seen this and didn't find it very trustworthy. (his words)
http://www.labx.com/v2/adsearch/detail3 ... umb=373674

Somebody is bound to program one of these and sell it for some kind of gemmo purposes.
http://www.labx.com/v2/adsearch/detail3 ... umb=384974


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 Post subject: Re: where can I learn how to use FTIR
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:26 am 
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http://www.kingston.ac.uk/undergraduate-course/gemmology-mineralogy-2012/

Kingston University, London. Requirements are a GemA Diploma or equivalent. I imagine that likely covers a GG, you could email them and ask.

Quote:
Successful completion of the GemA Diploma or equivalent.
Equivalent qualifications will be considered on an individual basis.
We will also consider applicants who:
already have a degree in a relevant science subject from a recognised Higher Education Institution; and
have appropriate professional experience and/or practice in gemmology.
An interview will normally be required. However this may be waived in the case of overseas applicants when other arrangements will be made.


The course was set up jointly by the GemA and Kingston University and covers learning to use the sort of equipment that you are interested in. According to a someone I know that did this course last year, they had a trip to the SSEF in there. He also said that it was a steep learning curve compared to the GemA format. Keeping in mind that the course covers a wider spectrum of topics than just the advanced lab techniques.


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 Post subject: Re: where can I learn how to use FTIR
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:14 am 
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Also Thu, if you are interested in doing the Kingston course, they are in the process of deciding whether or not to run it next year. Part of the decision making process comes down to having enough potential students wanting to take it. I emailed them a few days ago, they will be deciding by the end of the year. Drop them a line if you're interested, numbers count.


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