URAL MINERALOGICAL FESTIVAL, July 3 to 21, 2019, in Yekaterinburg City, Ural region, Russia
Welcome to the GemologyOnline.com Forum
A non-profit Forum for the exchange of gemological ideas
It is currently Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:49 am

All times are UTC - 4 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 66 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:29 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:53 pm
Posts: 2048
Location: Sweden
Hear hear!

_________________
_____________
Conny Forsberg


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:51 pm 
Offline
Active Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:27 pm
Posts: 91
Location: Bangkok
This is awesome. Congrats to Alberto and Mikko!

_________________
Richard W. Hughes
"The price of wisdom is beyond rubies"
ruby-sapphire.com
lotusgemology.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:52 am 
Offline
Gemology Online Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:18 am
Posts: 595
Location: Madrid, Spain
Just a sidebar reflection: I think we are living in interesting times for gemology! Some points to mention:

- Authomatic gem identification with sophisticated spectroscopic equipment starts to be affordable for small labs and individuals. Looks like all gemological education should be reoriented in short term and centered mostly in problems that can't be solved with these "magic boxes", and also in quality grading - great gap for color stones!

- Introduction of synthetic diamonds to the market. Finally they are here! Now we cant just identify diamond and go to grading. It occurred decades ago for ruby, sapphire and emerald and we always were saying that the time will come for diamonds, so we have a "honor" to live it now and try to solve this problem.

- Also the market itself is changing quickly due to the internet development. The elimination of intermediates is the tendency. One can choose diamond for a ring almost directly form manufacturers and at best wholesale prices. The same with color stones and also with jewelry manufacturers! So probably the certification of stones will be even more important in future for secure online shopping...

- Finally, also very important point: Internet forums (especially gemologyonline.com :wink: ) made possible an easy connection between professionals to talk directly about all these issues! And that's great!

_________________
http://gem-sphalerite.com
http://gems-inclusions.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:25 am 
Offline
Gemology Online Übergod
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:24 am
Posts: 4997
Location: McDonough GA
Cool post, Egor!

_________________
http://www.selectgem.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:43 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:42 pm
Posts: 4086
Location: the Netherlands
Egor Gavrilenko wrote:
Just a sidebar reflection: I think we are living in interesting times for gemology! Some points to mention:

- Authomatic gem identification with sophisticated spectroscopic equipment starts to be affordable for small labs and individuals. Looks like all gemological education should be reoriented in short term and centered mostly in problems that can't be solved with these "magic boxes", and also in quality grading - great gap for color stones!


I agree on the re-thinking gemmo education. I disagree with the idea that we need to slim things down to ' what we can't solve with the box, I'd much rather see a more comprehensive scientific base course followed by details, perhaps even specialisms... We need to teach more stuff, not less... We need to bring science back into gemology cause what we get taught at the major schools at the moment is geared towards sales people. I used to get offended when people called gemology a pseudo-science but I'm more and more seeing where these voices were coming from. The problem is that our field is a very commercial one and that the schools need to sell courses. When shit gets too difficult it doesn't sell...

The only solution I see is non-profit projects by fanatics...

Quote:
- Finally, also very important point: Internet forums (especially gemologyonline.com :wink: ) made possible an easy connection between professionals to talk directly about all these issues! And that's great!


Internet can, will and already does play a big role in solving the education issue.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:22 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:20 pm
Posts: 2656
Dr. Bill Hannemann diagrammed the situation clearly about thirty years ago. Gemology is not a science. It is in fact a commercial entity. It is concerned with the bauble and shiny object quality of certain materials, which are sold at high prices. It is the high prices, and need to say what something is, and what may have been done to it, that drives gemology. Otherwise it is just a branch of mineralogy, and maybe analytical chemistry, with a smattering of optics.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:30 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:42 pm
Posts: 4086
Location: the Netherlands
Well, the current state of events (new treatments and synthetics) ask for science. Commerce alone is no longer good enough, we need to go about it in a scientific way. Bring experimenting and proper understanding of physics, chemistry and geology into the field and you might get ahead of treaters, rather than constantly behind 'm... Commerce will gain from that.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:38 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:20 pm
Posts: 2656
If gemology is a science then the treaters are the scientists.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:41 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:42 pm
Posts: 4086
Location: the Netherlands
If they would document their actions and publish their work I would kinda agree... A chef is not a physicist though, even when he writes cooking books...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:10 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:20 pm
Posts: 2656
They are applied scientists.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:18 pm 
Offline
Valued Contributor

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:00 am
Posts: 344
Location: Finland
Thirty years ago was about thirty years ago :wink:

Of course many treaters are scientists. Especially many synthetic manufacturers has been hard core scientists already for decades. Forget a man with his blowpipe. Right now they are researching how to create boron in diamond lattice by nuclear reaction. Let me tell you that is not done for creating couple of funny blue fancies but for masking cape yellow with blue hue. We must keep up!

Despite the new technology ALL the knowledge is still needed starting from how to use the loupe. Importance of skills in visual observation will never vanish.

_________________
GemmoRaman GemmoFtir GemmoSphere


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:11 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 19634
Location: San Francisco
Truth be told, most folks enrolled and graduating from gemology schools, have little interest in thoroughly understanding the science behind their subject matter.
At least that it true of the ones I know....with the exception of my buddies here. :|


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:46 am 
Offline
Gemology Online Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:18 am
Posts: 595
Location: Madrid, Spain
I aggree with Barbra. Of course, all knowledge will still needed for some purposes, but the basic objective required by the industry in our field is gems identification. The easier method will be the best.
It already happened in mineralogy, for example. Tedious optical methods like phase contrast or universal stage were widely used from XIXth century for mineral identification, now they are still used for some very particular investigation tasks, but in mineral identification they are totally substituted by SEM/EDX, microprobe, XRD or Raman...

_________________
http://gem-sphalerite.com
http://gems-inclusions.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:55 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:42 pm
Posts: 4086
Location: the Netherlands
Ow yeah Barbra and Egor, that's completely true. It's also the reason why the courses are what they are... the schools are commercial entities and deliver what the largest part of the market demands. The market demands what it needs... Salespeople on the one side, consumer advisers on the other.

Yet... The market is now posing the run of the mill GG or FGA or whatever graduate of current gemology education with problems they can't solve with their refractometers and microscopes. Times are changing fast and we better get our act together and wise up quick. Mikko and Albè have given the independent gemologists a tool to swing themselves into the 21st century and more of this will follow. The problem is that when under-educated folks start treating these things as black boxes misinterpretations and mistakes will be (and already are) too plentiful...

This here is a good read on new gemology: http://ruby-sapphire.com/21st-century-gemology.htm


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: GemmoRaman
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:37 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 19634
Location: San Francisco
A little off topic here...I can always move it later, but there are some excellent free courses available for those who wish to get a deeper understanding on Geology/Mineralogy, etc.
From MIT:
Introduction to Geology

Structure of Earth Materials

Petrology


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 66 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Gemology Style ported to phpBB3 by Christian Bullock