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 Post subject: GIA Mark X overhead light
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:52 pm 
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Hi,

I recently purchased a used GIA Gemolite Mark X on ebay and unfortunately the overhead light doesn't work:( It isn't the bulb and can't be repaired. Does anyone have any suggestions where I could replace it? New or used. I've included a picture of the microscope for reference.

Thanks!
Jackie


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 Post subject: Re: GIA Mark X overhead light
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:31 pm 
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Why can't it be repaired?
Really?


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 Post subject: Re: GIA Mark X overhead light
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:38 am 
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It seems as if there’s power going to the light itself but there’s a short in the motherboard. I’ve been told by the electrician that that can’t be repaired. I don’t know if it can be replaced. I’d much rather repair it if possible- the only replacement overhead light I’ve found is almost $900! That’s almost what I paid for the microscope!!


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 Post subject: Re: GIA Mark X overhead light
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:15 pm 
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Would this work?
https://store.gia.edu/Overhead-Light-So ... 930100.htm


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 Post subject: Re: GIA Mark X overhead light
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:34 pm 
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I am currently in a similar situation with a gemolite VII base I got to build a system for someone else. I am not sure if the bulbs I got are faulty or the lamp, or something in the base. (Honestly, probably the bulbs--I ordered 6, and 5 of them rattle. never heard of a fluorescent rattlin').
My guess is that they were just using old-style Bausch and Lomb overhead lamps with a diffuser added, and the controller put into the base itself instead of in a separate box. If you just need to replace the lamp, one like this would likely be a drop-in replacement, not 100% identical to what was on the gemolite but close: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bausch-Lomb-31 ... 2729019352
That said, if the problem is with the controller in the base itself just replacing the lamp might not be enough. You might need to leave the lamp plugged into the hefty B&L controller box for it to work. There is no doubt a better more modern way to control the lamp that isn't as bulky, but I sure don't know it.
I don't know if the one Barbra linked would work. I am not sure if the DLscope has any genetic relationship to the gemolite line at all. Either way, I wouldn't recommend buying it through the GIA--they don't make anything themselves anymore, so it's just a Chinese product with their sticker on it. Likely possible to find it or a very similar lamp much cheaper.
I just got a bunch of B&L illuminators (fluorescent ring lamps, unfortunately, not linear like these)--I will have to check if they plug into the gemolite base and work.

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 Post subject: Re: GIA Mark X overhead light
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:13 am 
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Thanks for the tip! That just might work for me! It's not necessarily pretty but if it does the job I won't complain too much!


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 Post subject: Re: GIA Mark X overhead light
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:51 pm 
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I'm with Barbra on this one, there is nothing that cannot be repaired, the cost might be a problem, in which case I would look to retrofitting a different bulb.


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 Post subject: Re: GIA Mark X overhead light
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:56 pm 
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And furthermore, China is able to manufacture excellent product as well as inferior product.
Just like "Made in the USA" doesn't guarantee quality.

Perhaps I'm naive,but I think the GIA is committed to making reliable instrumentation.
I'm quite sure they vet a product before putting a GIA logo on it.

Is it more expensive than other sources?
Sometimes. Sometimes not.


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 Post subject: Re: GIA Mark X overhead light
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:16 pm 
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There is indeed nothing that can't be repaired. The best way to handle this situation is to do the following.
Buy a fluorescent light such as Stephen Challener linked to on fleabay. The Bausch and Lomb base is just a base there is nothing in it. The ballasts to control the fluorescent lights current are in the head the way they USED to be on Gemolites.

The one on ebay is ugly but nothing that can't be fixed with a quick coat of flat black. then if your gemolite has the same size diffuser you can move it to the old fashioned light. Move the fluorescent tubes too because most of those old illuminators have cool white rather than daylight tubes.


One problem with repairing the Gemolite is that the connection is made with a Lemo or Lemo style connector. These are impossible to repair outside of factories. Your electrician could replace that completely with something less fancy. (the Lemo connector is swiss made but it is too refined for most uses. It locks in and won't come out unless you push the button but wiring new ones is very difficult. Before attacking the LEMO connector you also need to see if the power supply in the gemolite base works. They may have made it digital and stupid rather than what is in the Bausch and Lomb (which GIA used to use) If it is digital it probably is indeed not repairable.
On the other hand if the "ballast" is still in the lamp head like the old days , then your electrician can cut the wire going into the LEMO connector and just attach an AC cord. But make sure you are doing the correct thing because you won't be able to repair the LEMO

I could take a look at it for you if you want to schip it.


I no longer think GIA is the slightest bit interested in selling good instruments to gemologists. I don't think they have been for like 15 years. jmo


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 Post subject: Re: GIA Mark X overhead light
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:24 pm 
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If anyone would know how to fix this it would be you, Gene.
Thanks for the response.
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I no longer think GIA is the slightest bit interested in selling good instruments to gemologists. I don't think they have been for like 15 years. jmo

That is disheartening. Why do you think so?
They charge top dollar to take their program. It seems like wise marketing to top it off with super reliable insturments.

Who do you think does sell excellent gemological instrumentation?


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 Post subject: Re: GIA Mark X overhead light
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:50 pm 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
Perhaps I'm naive,but I think the GIA is committed to making reliable instrumentation.
I'm quite sure they vet a product before putting a GIA logo on it.

On the one hand, no doubt they either do some QC themselves or more likely buy from someone who does. They don't want microscopes going out blind or anything like that (not likely an issue with the Leica ones, more likely with the unbranded Leica knockoff they offer as an option).
On the other hand, we're talking about an LED lamp for 500 crinkly US dollars. That's not much of a value.

As a side-note, I noticed they've had the DLscopes marked as out of stock for quite a while. I sort of wonder if it has to do with the Leica S6E apparently being discontinued, though that shouldn't interrupt the supply of their own-branded knockoff head, and almost any other modern entry-level stereoscope should fit in the same slot. It is kind of curious.

And I know that it requires a bit of technical knowledge, and isn't viable for a large group like the GIA, but it's hard to look at that 4600 price tag (without most accessories!) and think about the comically overpowered research-grade microscope I could buy used for that, and without having to do the kind of scrounging I normally would to assemble one.

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 Post subject: Re: GIA Mark X overhead light
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:55 pm 
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As far as I can tell 1) as this is written, on Nov 30 2018 GIA does not sell gemolites. I searched their site and there was only an overprice version of a $300 value scope. 2) The last Gemolite that they have pictures of is the round base version which looks identical to scopes that were sold on ebay for about $1800 and which I heard some not great things about. But they don't seem to have those. 3) Some of the instruments are OK. The GIA refractometer is now $925. I think that is overpriced. again jmo.

Also the use of the Leica brand name is (as I have railed about previously) a complete fraud. The Ernst Leitz company of Wetzlar Germany (who later bought the Wild microscope company and then were bought up themselves) never ever called a microscope "Leica" Leica was a cherman contractionism for "Leitz Camera" which was the first successful 35mm film camera (in the 1930s or maybe even 20s ) When the Leitz company was dissected the people that bought the microscope division finagled the right to use the Leica name. But it has nothing to do with scope only trademark ownership.

The aforementioned S6 series of scopes have more in common with the Bausch and Lomb AND also the competitive American Optical stereos that used to be Gemolites than they do with the few Leitz stereos that got made or with the Wilds including some Wilds that bear the Leica name. The same company bought up ALL of them. I think the current parent company is Danaher. The Leica branded scopes of the last at least fifteen years can be made in plants in India , the Phillipines and who knows where else. NOT germany (which is why using the Leica name sets me off even though its also a misnomer) nor the USA (Home of Bausch and AO)


Of course why would you give GIA $5,000 for a scope you can buy on ebay for $1800 and if you track down the manufacturer in China they will sell it to you for $1000.


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 Post subject: Re: GIA Mark X overhead light
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:16 pm 
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You and Gene are the Harry Potters of the microscopic world.
I am a muggle, as is most everyone else.

I don't mind spending the money if a product is reliable.
That being said, I have never invested in GIA instruments.

The greatest feeling for a gemmo like me is to open the box, plug it in and have everything work perfectly....better than expected. :smt026 :smt038 :smt042 and have an associated warranty....just in case.

Years ago (10+), I bought the Eickhorst 3rd digit refractometer and a few months later, its internal light bulb died. I emailed Manfred Eickhorst for replacement and he zoomed me (no charge) a replacement bulb which is still working today!


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 Post subject: Re: GIA Mark X overhead light
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:21 am 
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G4Lab wrote:
As far as I can tell 1) as this is written, on Nov 30 2018 GIA does not sell gemolites. I searched their site and there was only an overprice version of a $300 value scope. 2) The last Gemolite that they have pictures of is the round base version which looks identical to scopes that were sold on ebay for about $1800 and which I heard some not great things about. But they don't seem to have those. 3) Some of the instruments are OK. The GIA refractometer is now $925. I think that is overpriced. again jmo.

Also the use of the Leica brand name is (as I have railed about previously) a complete fraud. The Ernst Leitz company of Wetzlar Germany (who later bought the Wild microscope company and then were bought up themselves) never ever called a microscope "Leica" Leica was a cherman contractionism for "Leitz Camera" which was the first successful 35mm film camera (in the 1930s or maybe even 20s ) When the Leitz company was dissected the people that bought the microscope division finagled the right to use the Leica name. But it has nothing to do with scope only trademark ownership.

The aforementioned S6 series of scopes have more in common with the Bausch and Lomb AND also the competitive American Optical stereos that used to be Gemolites than they do with the few Leitz stereos that got made or with the Wilds including some Wilds that bear the Leica name. The same company bought up ALL of them. I think the current parent company is Danaher. The Leica branded scopes of the last at least fifteen years can be made in plants in India , the Phillipines and who knows where else. NOT germany (which is why using the Leica name sets me off even though its also a misnomer) nor the USA (Home of Bausch and AO)

Note that they actually haven't used the gemolite or gemscope trademarks for some time, calling their latest expensive one the DLscope and the cheap one the presentation scope. I don't know when they stopped selling the Gemolite X and made the changeover. I am not sure why they made the change in branding, though I would consider it appropriate.

Also,no offense Gene, but it's all been under the Leica brand since before I was born and I'm a grown man. I'm aware of the lineage (though I'd suspect it's mutated quite a bit over the intervening decades), and I'd take a good 580 or SZ7 instead if everything else were equal, but I'd also definitely take an S6 over an unbranded scope with similar specs. If only because it looks kind of like a Xenomorph.

As a side-note, some of the Leica products are also made in Singapore, like the Z6/Z16. I vaguely wonder if they made a deal with Qioptiq for that one. I haven't gotten the motorized functions working yet (I'm with you on your gripes about motorization without manual backups--it'll be nice to be able to change the zoom setting!) but my Z16 does produce a great image, and it attaches to an M420 head without any added optics, just a dovetail adapter.

Barbra Voltaire wrote:
I don't mind spending the money if a product is reliable.

I can definitely understand this. Even if you have a sense of what you're doing there can be a fair amount of headaches and return shipping involved with assembling a used microscope on a budget, and I can understand wanting to just have something that works even if it costs thousands of dollars more. That said, once you have it in your lab I can't think of too many things that should go wrong with a gem scope, new or used. Most breakage seems to occur in shipping, or if they've been used to death in an industrial setting, or left to mold in a damp garage. I suppose plastic components might wear out or crack?

Anyway, I do appreciate not everyone wants to go whole-hog on microscopes--it's definitely its own thing, and if you aren't enjoying it it'd be a lot of tedious work to save a bit of money. I'm also really nowhere near Gene's level on that (if I were Harry Potter he'd be more of a Dumbledore).


Sorry to go so far off-topic. I'm going to have a look at my own overhead lamp soon while waiting for more bulbs, and I'll let y'all know what I find.
edit: Sorry, this isn't going to be helpful. It appears that the single non-rattling bulb was the problem. It powered on right away when I swapped it out.

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 Post subject: Re: GIA Mark X overhead light
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:21 am 
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Interesting discussion on GIA scopes. GIA just donated a number of what looks like current model DLScopes to The Gemological Society of San Diego for classroom use. They said they were upgrading the microscopes used at the Carlsbad campus. I am not sure if this means that they will be selling a newer upgraded scope in the future.


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