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 Post subject: Understanding benitoite value
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:07 pm 
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Hello, I'm very noob to gemstones and was hoping I could get some professional guidance. Not log ago, I became fascinated in gemstones, and have found colored gemstones of USA origins particularly interesting. I've gained a wealth of knowledge using Google to query the gemologyonline domain, but haven't been able to understand pricing/value of the lesser known gemstones, e.g., benitoite.

The following sequence of events is what made me realize that I'm clueless about benitoite value. Not long ago, I found a 1 carat cut Benitoite stone on ebay that was being auctioned off. Included with the stone was appraisal documents which valued the stone at $4700. Since I was working during the time the auction ended I had to set a max bid. It was at $300 a few hours before it ended, so I set it at $760. Unfortunately, I lost. It sold for $800. Coincidently, one of the benitoite sellers I've been looking at, Capistrano Minning, now has the identical stone for sale on ebay for $6700. It's very perplexing, 3 different values for the same stone, $800, $4700, $6700. How do you know if you're getting a good deal?

Here's the auctions for reference.
http://ebay.com/itm/1-01-Cts-OVAL-CUT-B ... nav=SEARCH

http://ebay.com/itm/Faceted-Benitoite-1 ... nav=SEARCH


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 Post subject: Re: Understanding benitoite value
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:06 pm 
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Colored stones do NOT have a "set" value. That said, small benitoites seem to go for about $1000/carat on ebay (less than say a half carat). A one carat benitoite would go for more than that. I don't know who got the stone for $800, but they got a real deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Understanding benitoite value
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:27 pm 
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I'm assuming Capistrano Mining won the auction since they have it relisted. It's frightening that there's a 700% price increase for the identical stone, for sale on the same venue, within the same time frame. I've learned that purchasing rare gems is risky for the inexperienced. Are there any guides or references available to help better understand the value of stones like Benitoite and/or Montana Sapphire?


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 Post subject: Re: Understanding benitoite value
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:07 pm 
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Benitoite is a specialty stone. It's scarce and expensive and not that well known, so a lot of factors come into play. Pricing is based not just on rarity but on finding a knowledgable buyer with sufficiently deep pockets who is wiling to trust you not to send a fake. eBay is a particularly odd marketplace too thanks to the bidding format. Things can be sold for well below or well above more typical prices based on luck. There's also an extra layer of opacity. Some sellers have many accounts. Sometimes there are schill bids. Sometimes buyers never pay. You'll see some items reappear again and again. Sometimes things are available at a lower price even if they have no 'best offer' option.
Stuff's complex, even with a normal stone, and benitoite is definitely an oddball.

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding benitoite value
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:50 pm 
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This is only my personal opinion.

I think Capistrano Mining is overpriced - check other vendors like
Thegemtrader, Steve Perry, Coast to Coast or WSF.

The color range of benitoite is very small and they offer stones with a very good clarity and a high cutting quality. So no reason to pay a much higher price per carat for the same material.

Rounds are a bit more expensive then pears or ovals.

I like colorless (very rare) or pale blue to medium blue benitoite course you see the high dispersion much better.

And the other vendor offer "japanese quality" too :D

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding benitoite value
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:59 pm 
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Marlow wrote:
This is only my personal opinion.

I think Capistrano Mining is overpriced - check other vendors like
Thegemtrader, Steve Perry, Coast to Coast or WSF.


I share your sentiments. I came to that conclusion when the stone was relisted without the appraisal documentation for $2k more. I actually spoke with Scott a few weeks back. He's super friendly and from what I understand his family used to own that mine? I believe I read that somewhere. I'm not familiar with the other vendors, so thanks for the recommendations.

I really appreciate the info provided. If anyone is aware of any reading material regarding benitoite, I'd definitely be interested.


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 Post subject: Re: Understanding benitoite value
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:06 pm 
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The value of anything is defined by the last price which was paid for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Understanding benitoite value
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:57 am 
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Does this mean that the "worth" of an gemstone is a function of how much some "sucker" will pay for it."


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 Post subject: Re: Understanding benitoite value
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:47 am 
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Yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Understanding benitoite value
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:11 pm 
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Actually, that applies to everything we buy and sell.

-Allan

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding benitoite value
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:10 pm 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
The value of anything is defined by the last price which was paid for it.

Truer words have never been spoken! :|

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 Post subject: Re: Understanding benitoite value
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:39 am 
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If that is true, why should one employ an appraiser if one has the sales receipt of a diamond last sold twenty years ago? :D


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 Post subject: Re: Understanding benitoite value
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:43 am 
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Probably because it's precisely the appraisers' job to know at what price diamonds have been sold recently, not 20 years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Understanding benitoite value
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:55 am 
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Exactly. The diamond's value is a function of what like stones are currently being sold for, precisely defining the market in which your value is based on.


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 Post subject: Re: Understanding benitoite value
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:05 pm 
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Quote:
The value of anything is defined by the last price which was paid for it.

Does this mean that the "worth" of an gemstone is a function of how much some "sucker" will pay for it."

Yes.

If that is true, why should one employ an appraiser if one has the sales receipt of a diamond last sold twenty years ago? :D

Probably because it's precisely the appraisers' job to know at what price diamonds have been sold recently, not 20 years ago.

Exactly. The diamond's value is a function of what like stones are currently being sold for, precisely defining the market in which your value is based on.


If this is true and I know it to be so, then the worth of a gemstone is NOT a function of how much some sucker will pay for it. It appears to me that the worth of a gemstone has no relationship to any previous transactions.


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