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 Post subject: Re: Ruby?...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:28 am 
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Actually, the color of your stone under natural light, and again, the way it is cheaply set on the pin, strongly suggest a synthetic.
Until you are yourselves more experienced in the gemological area, you should trust more the advice of people who have seen and studied hundredths or thousandths of stones, not your own wishes and limited impressions and readings.
Because there as as many exceptions as rules in that field, there is no short way, it will take you years before you can safely conclude, and until then, you had better use the knowledge of those who know.
It will save you more than one disappointment.


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 Post subject: Re: Ruby?...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:45 am 
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Isi wrote:
Actually, the color of your stone under natural light, and again, the way it is cheaply set on the pin, strongly suggest a synthetic.
Until you are yourselves more experienced in the gemological area, you should trust more the advice of people who have seen and studied hundredths or thousandths of stones, not your own wishes and limited impressions and readings.
Because there as as many exceptions as rules in that field, there is no short way, it will take you years before you can safely conclude, and until then, you had better use the knowledge of those who know.
It will save you more than one disappointment.


I am totally agree with you,Isi. don't get me wrong...
that is why we come to asked the pros here. my understanding in this field is yet still very limited.
but we do understand now that without the correct tools and knowledge its impossible to know. i am guessing that with better optics and photos you could told me more about this gems without guessing too much.
so we listened to your advice and we order a dichroscope. when it arrive,i will try to learn how to use it properly,and than we continue and see if its worth send the gem to gia us, with fedex or ups.etc..
we live in israel. i dunno if you aware of how the things work around here regarding diamonds and other gems. we basically have an area called "bursa ramat gan",which is where all gemologics work. it's a very well closed society,and you need to know people for getting info,or pay a lot of money for tests and leave the gems for testing in hands of people that you dont know or trust. for me as a novice in this field,its seems like a bad choice. this is not the US here,nither paris or italy.
we don't have shops that sell gems equipments. Outside of bursa ramat gan area,jewlery shops just want to sell you diamonds,and have a very little to 0 knowledge to give regarding other gems. as you can see the respond my brother solomon got from the "experts" in the gem shop. people that look at a stone from a mile without optics and tell you its real or not. a..... joke.


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 Post subject: Re: Ruby?...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:49 pm 
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Isi wrote:
Actually, the color of your stone under natural light, and again, the way it is cheaply set on the pin, strongly suggest a synthetic.
Until you are yourselves more experienced in the gemological area, you should trust more the advice of people who have seen and studied hundredths or thousandths of stones, not your own wishes and limited impressions and readings.
Because there as as many exceptions as rules in that field, there is no short way, it will take you years before you can safely conclude, and until then, you had better use the knowledge of those who know.
It will save you more than one disappointment.


I Completely Agree...


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 Post subject: Re: Ruby?...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:25 pm 
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Morning Dor. You are correct. There is no shortage of diamond experts in your area. Colored stones seem to really be of little interest.

Once you get your instruments, and learn how to use them, you will be able to supply us with data, not random observations and photos.

As I originally pointed out to your brother, read through the free gemology courses on the left and the beginning of our GemologyProject which focuses on colored stones.

Ramat Gan definitely needs an expert on colored stones. That could be YOU, Dor.


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 Post subject: Re: Ruby?...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:16 pm 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
Morning Dor. You are correct. There is no shortage of diamond experts in your area. Colored stones seem to really be of little interest.

Once you get your instruments, and learn how to use them, you will be able to supply us with data, not random observations and photos.

As I originally pointed out to your brother, read through the free gemology courses on the left and the beginning of our GemologyProject which focuses on colored stones.

Ramat Gan definitely needs an expert on colored stones. That could be YOU, Dor.


thank you Barbra for your kind words,time and help so far. i do find very big interest in this field,but it still new for me, and i have much to learn yet, so time will tell,you know...
ramat-gan have enough experts on gems in any kind. we have labs,even a branch of GIA i think,but outside of this closed society,not many experts out their, couse as you said,lack of demand... people want diamonds, so thats what they offer in jewlery shops and based on that also the sellers who work there are trained for.

Barbra Voltaire wrote:
As I originally pointed out to your brother, read through the free gemology courses on the left and the beginning of our GemologyProject which focuses on colored stones.


very nice project,i will look into.


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 Post subject: Re: Ruby?...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:47 pm 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
Many natural sapphires fluoresce under LWUV. It depends on the absence of iron in their structure. Iron inhibits fluorescence under LWUV.


i have another quesion about that, if you dont mind.
i am reading an article about magnetism in sapphire.

"blue Sapphires from Sri Lanka, Burma, Tanzania and Baffin Island, Canada. These all share similar conditions of geologic formation (metamorphic compression within a host rock of marble, schist or gneiss) that create low-iron Sapphire"
Blue gems from all these low-iron areas can have vivid “cornflower” violet-blue colors and very low or undetectable magnetic susceptibilities. The rich blue color of these gems is derived primarily from Fe2+-Ti4+ charge transfer rather than from ferrous iron (Fe2+) alone or Fe2+-Fe3+ charge transfer. Darker examples with higher iron and greater magnetic susceptibility can also be found in these regions. However, a diamagnetic (repel) response during floatation shown by a natural blue Sapphire of moderate to strong color points toward an origin of Sri Lanka, Burma, Tanzania or southern Madagascar. A weak response from any dark blue Sapphire also points toward an origin of one of these low-iron regions.


so my question is if you based your suspicion and try estimate that i am using a LWUV basically by the color of the stone? (cause this type of blue color happen mostly in sapphire that come from these regions that contained low iron,so that plus the fact that it didn't glowed under my unknown uv,if its a LWUV it make sense that it should not glow.


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 Post subject: Re: Ruby?...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:06 pm 
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Morning Dor. Your question is a good one. For decades jewelers represented their sapphires based on the color of the stones.
Terms like Burma, Kashmir, Ceylon were simply based on color. These descriptive adjectives were used to represent superior quality. Common sense tells us that not all sapphires mined in Ceylon, Burma, Kashmir are good quality. Most is dreck.

Sidebar: The only sapphires I have seen with rather diagnostic coloration are Australian ones.

Can one look at all sapphires and positively determine origin based on color? NO.
Do many people think they can? Absolutely. Are they often totally wrong? Yes.

The sophistication of origin determination has drastically improved with the availability of advanced testing microscopic and spectrographic equipment being analyzed by geo-chemists and geo-physicists qualified to interpret the data.

This has created a bit of a quagmire. Customers have been led to believe (by the old standards) that merely having an origin report indicating the stone came from a famous locality, it must be a collectible, fine gem. I have seen some of the most gawd awful examples of ruby and sapphire sell for top dollar because they came with an impressive origin report.

Let's put the tools down for a second. One step at a time. May I suggest you try to get a copy of Secrets of the Gem Trade. Learn what makes a gem a gem, more than a crystal specimen, more than fodder for your terrarium.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I have been doing this for a long time. Every day, I learn something new and realize I have a million things left to discover. It is never ending.


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 Post subject: Re: Ruby?...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:58 pm 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
Morning Dor. You are correct. There is no shortage of diamond experts in your area. Colored stones seem to really be of little interest.

Once you get your instruments, and learn how to use them, you will be able to supply us with data, not random observations and photos.

As I originally pointed out to your brother, read through the free gemology courses on the left and the beginning of our GemologyProject which focuses on colored stones.

Ramat Gan definitely needs an expert on colored stones. That could be YOU, Dor.


O..K :)
kit arrived today...
surprisingly,the blue sapphire is not synthetic,but rather not corundum at all. under chelsea filter the gem have orange color under white led light.
i dunno if you can see from the photo but it is 100% orange.

*EDIT
2 test with the Spectroscop. very hard to use it and take a picture. i tried to maximize the led light as much as possible by insert the device to a black pipe and seal any other light other than the led itself while the gem sitting above it.
combining both filter and Spectroscop results shows something that in my eyes look like a "synthetic spinel" i see 1 vertical black line on red color in the [color=#FF0000]650-700nm[/color] ,one on the end of the yellow where the orange start,arround 600 and one (more narrow and faded then the others) on the edge of the green before the yellow start. 560-570? (this is a Diffraction type spectroscop,without a meter)
about the red ruby,i will show results later this weekend.


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Last edited by Dor on Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Ruby?...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:04 am 
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i marked the lines Approximately. as i said ,very hard to catch it on photo.


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 Post subject: Re: Ruby?...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:12 am 
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the earrings was tested. results with spectroscop
give 2 lines at around 500 and 550. under chelsea filter ,and this time with an incandescent light bulb (i understand now that white led is not good) color is green.
the blue synthetic spinel by the way is red color under incandescent light.
any way... the ruby is not a ruby,but
"almandine garnet" ,unfortunately. not picked up with a strong magnet though... thats why i tought its not a garnet from the start.
i have an almandine garnet here that my magnet picked up easely... i guess the gems on the earrings contain less iron. :\


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 Post subject: Re: Ruby?...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:46 pm 
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Excellent forensic work Dor! And great job in photographing the spectrum.


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 Post subject: Re: Ruby?...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:59 pm 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
Excellent forensic work Dor! And great job in photographing the spectrum.


Thank you barbra :D
and thank you for all your help here.

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