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 Post subject: Ancient Egyptian Glass Jewel Need help identifying
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 11:59 pm 
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I am trying to identify a very uniquely colored and faceted glass jewel.
A gemologist once told my friend that it was an ancient egyptian glass jewel of which only 3 were known to exist. He unfortunately passed away before he could provide any important documentation.

The glass jewel was purchased at an estate sale in a box with other jewels. The box was marked "Came from Germany in 1870". This might be an indication as to it's age.

Another gemologist described the jewel as, "The gemstone is 1 1/4 carots, and appears to be of an ancient man made glass, possibly ancient Egypt. The stone has a facet that is not common in modern era gemstones. The colors in this clear diamond like stone is hard to describe as the colors are constantly changing from deep greens, blues, reds, and purple. The colors are deep and bright whether in sunlight or shade.

My Avatar to the left is a picture of it. Better pictures can be seen at PHOTOBUCKET.COM, USER ID:SAFESPOT, PASSWORD:83146bs (password is case sensitive) See Ux4's comments below for a quick link to one of the pictures.

Schroll down to see the pictures. Left click on them to enlarge them. Please don't do anything else to change the pictures. You may down load them so you can attach them to an E-mail by right clicking on the picture and selecting "save picture as..."

Thank you
Mark Palmer[/url]


Last edited by Mark Palmer on Sun May 21, 2006 12:26 pm, edited 9 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 1:07 am 
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mark, the password or other you have listed is not working.. dave.


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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 11:20 am 
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Heres a guese and a bad one at that.. it doesnt seem to have mystic qualities, it appears to be different colored glasses in the same gem.. ive watched glass blowers put diffeerent colored strands of glass into a string and keep folding it, and making a multicolerd vase that is unbleiveable.. this looks to me like differennt colors of glass put together and molded then maybe cut to this shape.. what makes me draw this conclusion is that the color goes outside of the facet.. that is usually in gems the facet will be one color then the next facet will be another color etc.. this is unusual tho ill give you that.. unless it has documentation or providence what it is or where it came from, it will be difficult to prove what it is.. i know a guy who makes thousands of dollars going around to antique stores and estate sales and saying this and that is such and such and selling it on the net.. he seemed very impressive for about a year untill i figured out he is full of wind.. but he really believes it and does have some nice stuff... there are alot of self proclaimed experts out there, who make good money buying junk and selling treasures.. this is the name of the game but one should know the facts and providence for a 25,000 dollar purchase.. dave..


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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 1:10 pm 
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Greeting Mark Palmer

If you were told by one gemologist that it was only One (1) of Three (3) known then it would be very, very easy to confirm or deny.

There are several World-Class Museums that specialize in Ancient Egyptian Artifacts.

I would do a web search for these museums and then email each one and ask their Egyptians Experts.

Email them a letter telling them what you know what you were told and then enclose an attachment of photo.

Later

Take Care and Have Fun

Work Smarter NOT HARDER!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 1:13 pm 
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http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h43/s ... CN1116.jpg

The link above is to a pic of the item.

As far as I know, no such faceting was done AT ALL in antiquity. I am far from an expert on the subject, however. Anyone know?

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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 4:28 pm 
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i recall faceting was developed in the 16th century. some diamond cleavage was done, but the wheel method i believe started in the lowlands there.

Most ancient stones are cabbed.


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 Post subject: Re: Ancient Egyptian Glass Jewel Need help identifying
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 6:20 pm 
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Mark Palmer wrote:
The glass jewel was purchased at an estate sale in a box with other jewels. The box was marked "Came from Germany in 1870". This is some providence as to it's age.
Mark Palmer


I can't identify your stone but I think I know who can. I saw a half-dozen nearly identical pieces last Wednesday at the Deutsches Edelsteinmuseum in Idar-Oberstein, Germany. I simply can't recall the museum's description of the stones but maybe you can ask for help at: info@edelsteinmuseum.de

It's possible I saw them at the Museum Idar-Oberstein near the Felsenkirche -- lots to see and too much to remember. They don't have an email addy but I have phone and fax numbers if you need them.

Good luck!

ROM


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 Post subject: Re: Ancient Egyptian Glass Jewel Need help identifying
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 9:25 am 
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Mark Palmer wrote:
The box was marked "Came from Germany in 1870". This is some providence as to it's age.



This isn't even good evidence to the age of the box, much less the contents. If where you're going is a defense of value based on the age and history you need better support than this.

Neil

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 4:57 pm 
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I'd rather bet on some exotic strass thing... Germany 1870 sounds allot more likely than any sort of Egypt. The faceting is very clearly modern, and so is the material. No doubt in my mind. Studies about early glass making are not difficult to locate, and I very much doubt any documentation might contain references to anything like this - not that I am aware of anyway.

In your place, I would be ... amused, :? or at the very least very skeptic.

I am intrigued by the match at Edelsteinmuseum! Not sure what the object looks like from the photo, but there are intriguing products resulting from attempts to recreate the iridescence of antique glass - I don't think that one is officially cracked yet, but some of the materials resulting from the trial and error are rather nice.

Not that the real thing is not nice. And not all that expensive either.

You might like this: http://www.angieolami.com/ :)


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 7:21 pm 
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Just looking at the photo, this appears to be a classic piece of "rhinestone" glass. Here's what Sibylle Jargstorf has to say in her book Baubles, Buttons & Beads: the Heritage of Bohemia:

Quote:
The use of natural rhinestones (Cailloux de Rhin) is recorded in Germany and France since at least the 17th century. This variety of quartz is also called either rainbow quartz or iris quartz because of the certain amount of iridescence it shows due to its internal fracturing. It is found in the Alps and is brought down to the valleys by such rivers as the Rhine - hence the name Rhinestones.

Bohemian composition makers re-created this stone in glass during the late 19th century. Among the makers, the glass stones were simply called iris glass, though on the European market they were largely called simply 'rhinestones.' They were (and are) very popular, and can be found frequently set into very ornate silvery jewelry.


In one of her captions she also mentions that
Quote:
the old pre-World War I rhinestones have much stronger colors than the more recently crafted stones.


The tip-off is the standard red-green-blue + crystal color combination - ignore the yellow tint picked up from the feather or whatever that is in the background. Nowadays the Czechs call this "art glass."

Staying tuned,
Chris


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 8:56 pm 
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Although some scholars have held that faceting began in India as early as the 4th century BC, so far as we know, faceting began in the 14th century and was a European invention. Aside from the obvious visual appearance, the fairly modern faceting pattern would prove that the stone is not ancient.

The vivid colors would dictate fairly modern chemistry. Ancient pieces art typically duller and more earthy hue.

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