CIBJO releases Gemmological Special Report: considers process of separating measurable facts from opinion; See Gemological Articles below.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:08 am 
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yea the article made some good points but seemed the author was rather harsh about it..

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:43 am 
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Bluey Zarzoff wrote:
My feeling is that you could get bogged down with the science of it. As long as you can get it working, who cares how.


Quite right, we wouldn't want to get all bogged down with science, cough cough.
:?

So, perhaps as a public service for our members who are not gifted with special powers, you can describe the geological environment and associated minerals found with your discoveries.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:12 pm 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
Bluey Zarzoff wrote:
My feeling is that you could get bogged down with the science of it. As long as you can get it working, who cares how.


Quite right, we wouldn't want to get all bogged down with science, cough cough.
:?


Me - I would really LIKE to get to the science of this as, IMHO, there is SOMETHING that is making this work. Maybe not for everyone but then why does some metals change some people's skin color while others can wear the exact same piece and no change. Is THAT a key to this? Maybe...maybe not. There will always be at least 2 different opinions on anything, one pro and one con....if not, we'd just accept everything we hear as being 'correct' and the world would still be flat.....I've watched it work for many years.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:17 pm 
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Bluey Zarzoff wrote:
what I cannot explain are the blind tests that I have done. One in particular.

I used a small zircon because zircons seem to give me a cleaner reading.

I checked a pile of tailings (about 2yards) with the rods and 2 zircons in my hand. No signal.

I then put a 2 carat zircon into the pile and turned it over a few times with a shovel.

I checked the pile again and got a reading.

Well, of course you did. You knew it was there. I think you need to look up the definition of "blind test."


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:29 pm 
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I would really LIKE to get to the science of this

There have been many controlled tests done over the decades (centuries) with dowsing and divination. The results of these tests have proven that the success rate is a result of chance and probability. No more.
Wikipedia has a couple pages on test results for those interested.

Further discussion probably belongs in a metaphysical arena.


Last edited by Barbra Voltaire, FGG on Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:41 pm 
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Bluey Zarzoff wrote:
I don't know how the signals are being interpretted. At first I thought that I was picking up the electrical conductivity of an object, but I am now leaning toward the magnetic anomoly of different items. Maybe it's both of the above, or none of the above. I honestly don't know.

My feeling is that you could get bogged down with the science of it. As long as you can get it working, who cares how.


Magnetics anomalies and eletric fields are vastly overrated. Do a little math and figure out how much of an anomaly a 2ct zircon would have to be in order to create a noticible effect.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:18 pm 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
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I would really LIKE to get to the science of this

There have been many controlled tests done over the decades (centuries) with dowsing and divination. The results of these tests have proven that the success rate is a result of chance and probability. No more.
Wikipedia has a couple pages on test results for those interested.

Further discussion probably belongs in a metaphysical arena.


Missed that one....thanks Barb. Of I go to Wiki, who knows where it will take me from there.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:35 pm 
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Well, in some paradigms it doesn't work, in others it does... it's one of those things where the mindset of the practitioner actually determines outcomes, which seems to be true in all bio-energetic research. There is actually a very good theoretical model for dowsing and psychic work, you just have to have a background in Chinese philosophy to understand the terminology, since the concepts don't exist in english. As a final note, jack anderson, the famous muckraking reporter in washington d.c. was all over the "remote viewing" being done by the intelligence community in the 1980's He stfu when the "viewers" pinpointed w/in 2 miles the location of a down soviet backfire bomber in africa, enabling a special forces team to parachute in and recover all the secret stuff.

Here's my contribution to the dowsing world, syn padpraschada sapphire...all ready to go, you just need to put an end cap on and a chain.

Image

Image

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:23 pm 
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squeaky wrote:
Me - I would really LIKE to get to the science of this as, IMHO, there is SOMETHING that is making this work. Maybe not for everyone but then why does some metals change some people's skin color while others can wear the exact same piece and no change. Is THAT a key to this?


Metals react to the pH of the body, so for instance a person who is overly acidic will turn green where gold jewelry touches the skin. It used to happen to me when I was a kid, and it's because of the diet, so once my diet changed I no longer had the problem when wearing gold. ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:53 pm 
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Well I dowse regularly using two bent steel wire rods. I can find and follow underground wires whether there is current in them or not. Even very small cables like telephone cables can be followed.

I also can find and follow water pipes or drainage pipes. I have no idea why it works or if there is any possibility of exploring the science of it all with current technology. I've never tried to use it to find a spot to dig a well in and I'm not sure I could tell the difference between a water pipe and a cable I just know "Don't dig here"

Everyone has the ability to do this to some extent or another though the reaction is much stronger with some folks than with others. Belief in it working is NOT a requirement.

Tim if you come to visit me next summer I'll get the rods out and I bet you a garnet to a ruby you can make it work. As I say belief in it is not a requirement.

I don't know if this can be tuned to find specific minerals, gems etc but I know that I can make it work at any time.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:15 pm 
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Frank wrote:
..........
Everyone has the ability to do this to some extent or another though the reaction is much stronger with some folks than with others. Belief in it working is NOT a requirement.

Tim if you come to visit me next summer I'll get the rods out and I bet you a garnet to a ruby you can make it work. As I say belief in it is not a requirement...........


Can personally attest to this too - watched neighbor across the street that was a disbeliever, Poppy handed him the rods (welding rods) and said try it. He took the rods, held them correctly - laughing loudly - they walked the opposite way toward another unoccupied house. Before a few feet, they crossed right in his hands. The laugh cut off in midsound and the swearing began....it's still a story told to any new person that will listen.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:22 pm 
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Tim if you come to visit me next summer I'll get the rods out and I bet you a garnet to a ruby you can make it work. As I say belief in it is not a requirement.


u sure its not reacting to the beer in my belly?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:53 pm 
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Anybody interest in one million $?
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

In Italy another group was offering one million euro. I saw a test, on TV, with a famous rhabdomant/dowser trying to find the water flowing in buried tubes. The rhabdomant know the position of the tubes and had to decide whether there was water flowing in them or not... He didn't get the million. :D

When I was working, for a summer, drilling water wells (I'm still formally a geologist...) my customers' success rate was 100% too. "Mr. John Customer, where the well would be more convenient for you?", "OK, let's drill there". In many areas is as simple as that. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:09 pm 
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If it works..then why not draw up a proposal and present it to any institution of higher learning? Why not petition for grants? Why not contact anyone in the scientific community and show them? What i don't understand is why Multi-billon dollars companies with teams of scientist and expensive equipment don't take more note of this? Lets take for example:gravity. can't see it... can't touch it..has no mass.....now put yourself back in time..say during issac newtons time..he tells you..there is some mysterious magical force that is around everything and so on and so forth..heck..sounds like a bunch of mumbo jumbo to me..but...enter Einstein..his theory of relativity..well it's just a theory backed up by mathmatics but no observational evidence..enter eclipse of..what 1918? 1920?..Bam observational evidence of light being bent around the sun due to gravity...back in 1920..at the dawn of cars, airplanes, and 40 years before the first computers..now the theory of gravity after many inumerable repeatable test and observations is an accepted truth..this example brings up the point that something that sounds make-believe and magical(gravity) has been proven truth by repeatable experiment and observation. In this day and age of super computers and high tech tools and insturments you would think they would have just a slight shred of evidence that dowsing works. Take a dip into particle physics, quantum physics, astro-physics, genetics or anything of that nature..now clear your mind of any knowledge on any of these subjects and imagine I told you we are all made up of tiny little vibrating charged particles ..everything is made up of them....or the universe is 13.6 billion years old and has 100 billion galaxies..or my eyes, ears, hair color are all determined by some small twisted ladders(helix) inside my body..all sounds like fantasy and make believe..but..wait..all of these can be tested though experiments and observation..what sounds like a fairly tale is now truth...now you could say.."well they have not figured out why dowsing works yet..science can't explain it"..thats a big cop out..in this day and age when we can map each individual gene in the human body, tell what the universe was like 1/10 of a second after formation, and slam t particles in the large Hadron Collider we can't tell why supposedly two sticks cross over water?..of course we can't predict the weather a week in advance so maybe :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:16 pm 
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good post maia. if it works there is 1 million dollars for you..you would be set..if it worked i would drop everything i was doing right now and shoot for that milliion..i can't think of an easier way to make a million dollars..all for walking with two sticks or a pendelum..seriously..that is a genuine offer too. Short of the lottery there is not an easier way to make 1 million dollars..thats if it worked..but it says "To date, no one has passed the preliminary tests."

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