CIBJO releases Gemmological Special Report: considers process of separating measurable facts from opinion; See Gemological Articles below.
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 Post subject: We need a doctor here!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:45 pm 
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Often while browsing online I run into all kinds of "therapeutic properties of gems", but let's look at it from a logical perspective. It actually makes sense that calcium from pearls or corals, which are organic substances, can abrade from the gem's surface due to low surface hardness and get absorbed through skin. I know amber is a fossilized resin, but I also know resin of pine tree contains essential oils, so why wouldn't it be beneficial to wear amber on the skin? It would be the same with shells, bones, jet and other organic gems. I'm no scientist here, but it would be interesting to find some actual research done on the subject.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:02 pm 
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Hi m4816k:

I find it interesting that all that is old is new again :)

When did the first shaman , healer or medicine man decide that "lodes stone" had healing properties. *chuckle* you have to remember that there were no lawyers in those days so a "malpractise suit" was often settled at the end of some very sharp pointed object.

Moving forward (way forward) I have seen magnetic bandages (modern form of "lodes stones") speed healing in injured horses by months.

The theory or belief that gems have healing properties may seem "new age" but was known in Roman and Greek times. Now realistically yes those two civilizations did "discover" many things but one wonders what legend led them to experiment in this area. Or more to the point which of the "wild tribes" traded the knowledge to their advantage?

"Feral medicine" is never as strong as laboratory produced medicine but the former often doesn't have the strong side effects found in any thing from the Lab. Asperin is easier to make and use than "the scrapings from the inner bark of the willow" and the dosage is easier to standardize but with a little tinkering the later does a fine job with half the side effects.

Well you get the idea so I'm gonna stop here before this becomes a PHD disertation :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:29 pm 
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Guaranteed to work on 2-5% of cases (the usual size of the placebo effect). On anything! Not that bad...


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:48 pm 
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Hi Vleria102:

hmmm ... didn't want to get into this but since I opened this can of worms guess I have to respond.

I'm only going to address 2 nature produced drugs.

!: acytacylic acid (hope I spelled that right). this acid is produced in only two ways. One is the synthization process "invented by Hier Bayer"

He started with a raw sample of this acid and tinkered in his lab till he produced Bayer Asprin. The reason he synthisized it was ease of use oh and less we forget he charged and still does for what is a natural remedy.

The raw sample he started with was produced by a willow tree. The inner bark of the willow (boiled in water to desired strength) was for centuries used to cure head aches, bring down fevers, reduce the pain of arthritis etc. In short it was used successfully to treat everything Bayer asprin is used for today.

Unfortunately both the bark and Bayer asprin have the same side effects:
excessive use will lead to bleeding in the stomach and of course impotence.

2: Saw Pomento, This "herbal" was used and still is to reduce the size of the prostate gland. It was for years the only recomended treatment for BPH (once again I hope I spelled that right) The recomendation was from the American Cancer Society. This condition is tested for with the PSA test.
(Prostate specific antigen blood test). The higher the number the greater the enlargement of the postate. Of course any old man can tell you this long before the doctor does.
Saw pomento will reduce the enlargement and the PSA number without side effect.

For those who must have a Lab produced "pill" they will be happy to know that it is now available. Of course they may not be as happy about the one know side effect of the Lab produced "pill". That is impotence.

For those who would like to know more about the "green pharmacy" check to internet with the addition to the search of the word Germany. The Germans order of prescription is "green" then Lab.

These two herbals are of long standing use and effectiveness (100%) and do not fall into the placebo effect range. Seventy-five of our most used drugs are based on an original "plant" medicine.

Hope this clears up at least two misconceptions about "feral medicine". :lol: Remember a drug from a lab doesn't have to actually cure anything it must only pass the bar of "being better than nothing". Oh and for the most part kill no more than 6 out 100,000 people who use it.

I should add don't try herbals at home they should only be used under the care of a MD (fat chance) or if you are lucky enough to know one a Naturopathic trained MD. Herbals are not all without side effects and sober thought is required with there use.
Thanks

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Last edited by George Sharen on Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:47 pm 
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Indigenous remedies...

In Gabon they have the "Bois Bande" which translates as "erect wood", in Cameroon and the Congo they have "Kabila powder". I'm not sure what the active ingredient is in this, but the active ingredient can induce priaprism (72 hours+) and can be quite dangerous to anyone having cardiac problems.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:15 pm 
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Hi 'nuck:

72 hrs .. ouch.

The viagra family is also verboten (forbidden) to those with heart problems. They also cap priaprism at 4 hrs before seeking medical intervention.

In the movie Medicine Man staring a certain Scot by the name of Connery the female lead is given a herbal (tree bark) that starts with the name Yoko___ for the life of me I can't remember the full name. Long story short headache gone but she is wired beyond belief (same effect as 100 cups of coffee :lol: )

I figured at the time it was a joke the script writers were having at our expence. Just the other day I saw it advertized as a "restorative drink".

So I guess the joke was on us it does exist.

I should add don't try herbals at home they should only be used under the care of a MD (fat chance) or if you are lucky enough to know one a Naturopathic trained MD. Herbals are not all without side effects and sober thought is required with there use.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:19 pm 
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Don't forget shittake mushroom extracts for fighting cancer. They are licensed as medicine in Japan. I personally know someone who used them to shrink tumors in her dog.

Craig


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:38 pm 
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There are many remedies that have been used for centuries that are not over the counter treatments but that have been in recent years proven scientifically to work and why.

For instance spider web for cuts, if you put a cobweb on a cut it will heal much faster than on its own (or even with a plaster (or band-aid for Americans!)), the cells in the web will aid blod clotting and spiders web have natural anitseptic.

Just because something is natural, it doesn't mean it is all in the mind, as Wolf says, a lot of our processed medicines and treatments are based on natural remedies.

Kerry


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 9:03 pm 
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Just because something is natural, it doesn't mean it is all in the mind, as Wolf says, a lot of our processed medicines and treatments are based on natural remedies.


There are so many folk remedies that have modern disciplined counterparts, are have recently been recognized as effective that we could go on all night.

Read the label on Contac cold medicine: "Hyoscyamine Sulfate" From hyoscyamus niger, henbane, a member of the belladona (Solanacie) family.
Reserpine from snakeroot.
Aspirin, the acetyl ester of salicylic acid, form Latin salis (Willow), as prevoiusly posted.
The anti-inflammatory/antibacterial shikonin, that was used in Japan for 5,000 years, now cultured by Mitsui.
Goldthread root (coptis), Native American canker treatment/ stomach settling, etc...Later found to contain brucine, a strychnine alkaloid.
The Neem nut from India, that contains azadirachtins with many surprising properties.
..Not to mention all the (Now) recreational drugs with bibliographic entries that include Casteneda and HS Thompson!


So there is a lot of basis in the herbal applications.

The one that gives me probelms, technically and philosophically, is the Crystal Healing Thing. I unwittingly read a program wrong at a social function, and ended up in a presentation, trapped at the end of a row, and had to listen to "Like crystals heal? Because, like they are Natural? And come from the Earth?" & etc.
And this is something very real to us, because we all will, at one time or another, have to deal with its adherants. This presents an ethical dilemma to me personally. It's a gemstone: it's an ornament. I just cannot bring myself to sell an amethyst to protect someone from getting drunk, legalities aside.
I visited someone who had a tray full of sand, with a collection of attractive quartz crystals arranged in a haphazard way. I began to reach for one, to admire it..."STOP!!! I SPENT DAYS TUNING THAT AND GETTING THE VIBRATIONS RIGHT!!!".
Umm. OK. So do I charge a premium if I cut a stone with my machine aligned to True North? Or possibly so aligned as to track the location of Zeta Reticulum, doubtless the original Home of this person? :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 10:19 pm 
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You're right Wolf, many, many drugs are plant based. You can add Foxglove to your list, as it is an extremely toxic plant :smt078 from which they make heart medication. :smt049 And Ephedra herb got banned because it is the basis for the chemical concoction they called ephedrine, that was in diet pills and was banned after people died from deliberately overdosing on them (not the pure ephedra herb). :shock:

But using gems and organic materials like pearls for 'healing' is quite different because you don't actually ingest the substance. Instead, the idea is to introduce the pearls, or whatever stone's frequency, or energy signature, into a person's energy field who will benefit from that frequency, as opposed to the idea of physically absorbing calcium from pearls into the body. It's much cheaper to buy calcium tablets than to eat pearls :-# plus, calcium needs to be balanced with a certain ratio of magnesium for the body to be able to absorb it and utilize it, anyway. And yes, essential oils are used, but in such concentrated form, at such high potencies, I can't imagine anyone could possibly absorb enough oil simply by wearing a piece of amber, that would make any difference at all. I don't even think placing amber or pearls over every inch of the body would absorb enough to matter. :smt092

There are, however, gemstone tinctures that function much like homeopathic remedies, which you can buy already made up. With homeopathics you start with a natural substance, let's say bee venom, and you dilute one drop of it with 99 drops of alcohol or water, and succuss it (shake it). Then, you take one drop of that mixture, and dilute it with 99 drops of alcohol or water and succuss it again, and continue repeating this procedure until you get the strength you want. Each successive dilution leaves less and less of the original substance, in our case bee venom, in the mixture until eventually you can't find even one molecule of venom left in our potion, and yet, each successive dilution produces a stronger and stronger potion. This is totally contrary to how we think of strengths of medicines, or anything else for that matter, but this is different because in homeopathics we are not really dealing with substance, but rather with the information the substance held, which is very powerful and is quickly recognized and utilized by the body, it being the wonderful machine that it is, much like a computer program tells the computer to perform some function, and it does so. :smt024

We know that bee stings produce redness and swelling around the injection site, accompanied by pain and everything else one experiences once stung, and for some this can include life-threatening reactions. And now we have the venom information/frequency infused into our potion, which is getting stronger as we dilute it. Now when we get stung, and symptoms begin to set in, we take some of our potion and let it sit under the tongue, and the information from the venom alerts our nervous system to stand at attention, move against the invading poison and neutralize it. The sooner one takes one of these remedies after an incident, the faster it will unravel the onset of symptoms, and neutralize the other symptoms generally associated with the condition before they manifest physically. :smt042

We can make our bee venom potion at 10x, meaning it was diluted 10 times, or we can go to 100x, or 1000x and higher, and the more we dilute it, amazingly enough, the more potent it becomes. Less mass, more energy. It's a weird and backward concept compared to our traditional model of how the world works. :smt102

In homeopathics our bee venom potion is known as apis mellificus, and it works on the principle that like-cures-like, so whatever symptoms a bee sting would produce in a healthy human being will be neutralized by the information in our potion, and our human will experience little to no reaction to being stung, or getting hives, or any other condition that produces the same symptoms as being stung by a bee. I've used them successfully for over 25 years (ready made, I don't make them) and haven't used a pharmaceutical in just about as many years because they're laden with worse known, and unknown, side-effects than the conditions they're taken to 'manage', never actually 'curing' the condition. :smt009

Back to gemstone tinctures, with these it is the idea of ingesting the stone's frequency into the body, much like we introduced the been venom's information into the body to neutralize the sting. Oh, and gem remedies and homeopathics can also be used topically, which is the only way you would use an alcohol based tincture on a child, or you'd want to give them the milk-sugar type of homeopathic pellets if they're old enough. You might google 'gemstone remedies' and see what you can find for more information, if you're really interested. There are also remedies made from just about every kind of flower you can think of, called the Bach Flower remedies, which also function on the similar principles, that are really quite effective. :smt045

One caveat here. The mind is a powerful instrument we use both consciously, and unconsciously, for our betterment, or to our detriment. That said, people who believe they will be healed by doing just about anything have a chance of it occurring simply because of their belief. Hence placebos have their place. But I, personally, believe homeopathics and flower remedies (haven't tried gemstone remedies) are real, fast, and effective, having seen the evidence of their efficacy for so many years now both in humans, and in animals. Babies and animals have the fastest response to them, most likely because they have no pre-conceived notions about their efficacy, or lack thereof. Being sure, either way, affects the outcome. If there's doubt about efficacy, then research the therapy, and if you grasp the concept behind it and it appeals to you then try it out for yourself and make up your own mind. :smt017

Gemstone properties have been associated with various cultural healing practices for centuries; some appear to help some people, while others appear to be just myth. I did gemstone therapy and chakra balancing using gemstones for many years, and can assure you that people I worked on felt some sort of shift, or change, and especially energy-sensitive people seem to really react to the frequencies emanating from the stones they are attracted to. So I see no reason why gems and minerals couldn't contribute to one's health if having them around makes them 'feel good', and likewise I could conceive that stones a person really dislikes could even disrupt their energy field leaving them feeling sickly, angry, or depressed. :shock:

Hope this helps and stimulates you to research this further, m4816k, so let us know if you try a gem remedy, and what you think of it, but I really don't think wearing pearls or amber will produce the results you're looking for. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 10:35 pm 
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Hi Gearloose .... Crystal Star

We are the sum total of our experiences. Now Gearloose I know for sure that some of the gems you have on your web page would have a very marked effect on my mood and state of mind :lol: if I got my hands on them I'm sure I'd figure I'd died and gone to heaven.

Crystal star: If you know any old bee keepers you have probably noticed that virtually none of them suffer from arthritis .. theory is that the venom they have accumulated over the years protects them form it *shrug* don't know but it is an attractive theory.

Personally I like to think I have an open mind (*sigh* yes open mind not air head) almost nothing amazes me any more I just shrug and tell myself I should have seen it sooner :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 10:37 pm 
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The problem I see with that argument, is that the human body cannot use inorganic minerals. That is why plants use the minerals in the ground and convert them to organic minerals ... and we eat the plants :D . Ever try to get your iron from the sand? Not a good idea :x .

I believe in the healing nature of things organic, because man is an organic being. Honey is great for cuts ... it has anti-bacterial, anti-viral, and anti-septic properties. Many plants have the power to both heal or harm. But when you start talking inorganic gemstones, I believe it comes down to "all in the head". As Valeria pointed out ... the placebo effect.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 10:58 pm 
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Hi Mo Do:

The body regularly uses inorganic material. Selinium for muscle structure ( the lack of Selenium is called white muscle desease and kills if it hits the heart), Iron for hemoglobin (no hemoglobin no oxygen tranfer sad ending being anemic is the absence of iron to make hemoglobin) Bones that refuse to heal when broken are now placed in a strong magnetic field and zapped with a charged jolt of electricity to promote healing (actually they did that to me 53 years ago .. if it didn't work they were going to have to cut the arm off .. hmm glad it worked)

Energy fields surrounding gem stones are a fact of life .. lasers being the most notable. I just had treatment from a YAG laser some months ago to repair damage done to my eyes from diabeties.
Never say never ... not often sometimes but not never :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:38 am 
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Wait a minute... wasn't the original question about the potential health benefits from just wearing precious stones in jewelry?

No quite the same as drinking willow bark tea or eating therapeutic minerals like kaolin and what not (to cover both organic and inorganic types).

And so far, I am not aware of any modern, widespread derivative of the practice of using precious talismans, unlike the herbal medicine mentioned.

About the green stuff, you're preaching to the choir :)

To me, the psychological effects behind the use of talismans of any kind are quite a bit more mysterious than herbal medicine. I am not even certain that the subject is a matter of medical research: anthropology, psychology and sociology sound more likely. At least that is where I found any references at all. However, those are fading memories from a fleeting bit of religious studies a long while ago. Can't say I'm anywhere close to even being satisfied with how informed my opinion on the matter is :? Unfortunately, there's only this much one can do with a single life...

Frankly, writing on gemology forums seems to have some non-negligible therapeutic effect :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:45 am 
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Okay, Wolf ... tell me where you get your selenium. Do you go out and fill a bowl with dirt so you can get your selenium? I doubt it. You get it from organic sources: plants, meat, and seafood. The same for iron. In its inorganic state, the body doesn't use it ... but once it is transformed into the organic state by plants, the body can absorb it.

Hmmm ... I'd have to study more about lasers, but I'm sure there is more to it than just YAG vibrations. Your eyes weren't healed by a doctor laying a crystal of YAG over your eyes!

I still say wearing a gemstone or crystal for "healing" properties is all in the mind. :?

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