Dec.20 to 22:SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA: Wholesale and retail show; Gem Faire Inc.; Scottish Rite Center; Fri. 12-6, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 10-5;
Welcome to the GemologyOnline.com Forum
A non-profit Forum for the exchange of gemological ideas
It is currently Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:06 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Properly define
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:21 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member

Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:02 pm
Posts: 2647
Properly define "Gemologist"
Hint: Certificates don't count.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:20 pm 
Offline
Gemology Online Übergod
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:24 am
Posts: 4997
Location: McDonough GA
The simplest answer is that a gemologist is a one who studies gems professionally.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:21 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:15 pm
Posts: 1795
Location: canada
how about one who studies Gems period no diferentation between professional and non professional :)

_________________
A Chinese proverb says "Gold is valuable, Jade is Priceless."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:41 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:20 am
Posts: 2742
Location: Southern California, U.S.A.
According to my college etymology course, "ology" is the root for "the scientific study of" whatever term precedes it, i.e., gem, geo (earth), bio (life), etc. No certificate or diploma needed. People like Galileo and Archimedes did just fine without diplomas -- although in Galileo's case a little more attention paid to the zeitgeist might have saved him a lot of trouble. Free thinkers, like a certain S.O.G. (Self Ordained Gemologist) I know of, often run into problems with the Establishment.

_________________
Rick Martin

www.artcutgems.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:56 pm 
Offline
Gemology Online Übergod
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:24 am
Posts: 4997
Location: McDonough GA
wolf wrote:
how about one who studies Gems period no diferentation between professional and non professional :)


I started to say this but I figured JB had in mind someone who could speak about gems with some level of accuracy, not just a cursory knowledge from books but actual study of stones themselves. So I figured that such a person would most likely be in the profession. But, Wolf, I think your answer really is the simplist.

J-


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:36 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 19939
Location: San Francisco
I think that the public expects someone calling themselves a "gemologist" to have some sort of credential(s). That's quite different from having an interest in gemology.
Wouldn't you expect a pathologist to have credentials, as opposed to an individual who was really interested in the study of pathology. The latter may not.
Biologist?
Criminologist?
Geologist?
Toxicologist?
Make sense?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:27 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member

Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:02 pm
Posts: 2647
I think these are all good answers, but, the truth is , I don't know the answer to my own question.

If we are to consider Gemology a science as suggested, then we must consider the composition of that science. The commercial aspects aside, which there are many, I will forfeit for the purpose of this discussion.

So what are the scientific components of Gemology? My list would primarily consist of:

Geology
Mineralogy
Physics
Chemistry

Now to qualify as an expert or at least diploma holder or any other conveyance of competence in any of those sciences, one would assume a certain level of intensive study had been achieved at an established University or Institute.

Now we have Gemology which by my definition is a compilation of these "orbital sciences." Any of those orbital sciences may be applied narrowly or quite intensively depending upon the gemological question presented and to the extent that the question has been fully addressed.

This proposes the question of when has "gemology proper" left the realm of a specific independent science and entered the discipline of an orbital science. There appears to be no apparent cut off line, only the extent to which a question may be answered.

This brings me back to the original question of, Properly define "Gemologist."

If we consider gemology a science as has been suggested and agree that it is a compilation of many orbital sciences as suggested and each of these orbital sciences requiring an intensive duration of specific study....
how under the current Industry structure could we possibly award a diploma in Gemology after a 6 month course, or any other relatively short duration course by any of the Gemological schools that bestow diplomas, certificates or any other conveyance of expertise upon their graduates?

As I said, I don't know the answer, but, I feel Gemology has been seriously over estimated or seriously under estimated. This may all depend upon specific demarcation lines between the orbital sciences.

I'm feeling verklempt. Please discuss amongst yourselves.

There is a part II to this, but this should be more than enough to start with. :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:52 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:15 pm
Posts: 1795
Location: canada
Hi JB:

I think we have to split our discussion into two parts:

The Gemologist: one who studies Gems and mineraals

The Proffesional Gemologist: One who studies gems and minerals who has formal training.

Off topic, but here is a scary thought half the doctors pratising today finished in the bottom half of their class .. and scarier still one of them finished at the bottom of the class.

We as a society worship pieces of paper which are held out as "credentials". Almost everday we are told here that this proffessional or that has misidentified a gem, usually without proper tests. Or of Gemologist that have no idea what a gem or piece of jewellry is worth and inflate the value (ok I'll be charitable, out of ignorance)


I think we have to acknowledge that with all the information available today ... books .. online courses .. oh and of course forums .. that is is possible for a "talented" individual who sets his/her mind to it can be a competent Gemologist and not have the treasured piece of paper. After all thats where the saying "standing on the sholders of giants" came from. We need to remember that certifying bodies are in the business of certifying.

Gemologists belong to one of the last remaining bodies that is not self regulating. There is no recourse for incompetence short of the court. After the law suit he/she can continue marrily along with now fear of losing his "certification".

I will grant you that new 'discoveries" most often come from "certified" individuals. Of course this may be solely becuase they have access to peer review and access to publication. *shrug* not sure about that.

Anyway gonna stop here before I open up any more cans of worms.

_________________
A Chinese proverb says "Gold is valuable, Jade is Priceless."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:04 pm 
Offline
Valued Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:03 pm
Posts: 403
Location: Conyers, GA
OK, now that I have read all these "Gemologist" definitions, I have been able to come up with a title for myself.

Roberta Wingo
Certifiable Gemologist

I am going to make up some new cards right away :D


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:08 pm 
Offline
Gemology Online Royal Princess

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:56 am
Posts: 6462
Location: The frozen north prairie :-/
wolf wrote:
Off topic, but here is a scary thought half the doctors pratising today finished in the bottom half of their class .. and scarier still one of them finished at the bottom of the class.


Just to try to ease some of your worries, Wolf: At least even the student at the bottom of the class was, in fact, IN the class. :D I'm sure a great many people who would like to be doctors never get that far.

And, Roberta ... I think you spoke for many of use with the word "certifiable" :lol: .

_________________
IIJA Registered Gemologist
GIA Graduate Gemologist


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:32 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member

Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:02 pm
Posts: 2647
If I said, a Gemologist is a person trained to identify and evaluate a fashioned/cut mineral, would that make it more palatable?

I'm not looking for right or wrong. Just opinion on what a gemologist is and if it's more of an art or a science or something else.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:03 pm 
Offline
Gold Member

Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 11:00 am
Posts: 1133
Location: Monterey, CA
JB,

Not at all. Are you implying Appraiser = Gemologist ?

Why not just admit Gemology is simply a trade gussied up with a fancy name to impress the hoi polloi. Some might call it "branding." :D


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:25 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:15 pm
Posts: 1795
Location: canada
OUCH

_________________
A Chinese proverb says "Gold is valuable, Jade is Priceless."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: gemmology
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:40 pm 
Offline
Valued Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:11 pm
Posts: 254
Location: wicklow Ireland
apparently its an art,science and profession all rolled up together

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemology


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:42 pm 
Offline
Gemology Online Übergod
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:24 am
Posts: 4997
Location: McDonough GA
Bill is right. Technically anyone on this board can claim to be a gemologist with reason. But the public wants a gemologist to be able to do certain things with integrity and repetition. Thus there are certifications such as the GIA or Gem-A or AIGS or lesser lights to stamp behind ones name the letters GG or FGA. Do these things mean anything? Only to those who know what they mean and even then they dont necessarily imply respect. Face it, some of the best "gemologists" in history never had such credentials. More often than not they were simple geologists or scientists of some other discipline who applied their knowledge to the field of gems.

Perhaps it would be useful to bring up the distinction between a cynic and a philosopher. A philosopher, in ancient Greece, was one who spoke, meditated, thought, wrote and lived according to wisdom for the benefit of mankind. A cynic was a self proclaimed philosopher who "did philosophy" for personal gain and/or fame. He traveled around simply because once the town he was visiting discovered his 'cynical' status he was kicked out. A philosopher, on the other hand did what he did because he did what the name philosophy means---love of wisdom.

Based on this criteria, I would then argue that the very nature of the majority of modern gemology is for selfish gain rather than integrity in the field. THus we have an entire generation of cynical gemologists whose only interest in gems is how much the gem can benefit them financially. This doesnt make them bad people necessarily, but it does impede the publics understanding of gemology. The true gemologist is one who LOVES gems and studies them for the purpose of love alone. He may benefit personally by his wisdom but that is not his purpose. His purpose is simply to iterate his love of gems to those willing to accept it.

Now, that said, there are degrees of gemologists: beginner or novice (neophyte), moderate or proficient, and advanced or expert. One could further divide these categories into others but I won't do that for now. It is the ADVANCED or EXPERT that this board encourages people to become. But most of us are, in fact, either beginners or proficients. We have some great lights here like Bill Hanneman and Barbra Voltaire and RIchard Wise and others who certainly fall into the Expert category. But I, along with 95% of the others on this board haven't reached such heights of gemological wisdom...YET! :D And that is the point. Such heights are not dictated by any institute but by the love of the discipline itself. Any one of us is capable of becoming a shining light and a guide to others by our willingness to be humble and learn from the learned and apply ourselves to learning.

My 2 cents.

Jason


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Gemology Style ported to phpBB3 by Christian Bullock