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 Post subject: Kashmir ruby
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:42 pm 
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i know kashmir sapphires are coveted, but what about kashmir rubies? Do they come in top qualities and command high prices? I saw a few online, they seemed reasonable. Any ideas?


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 Post subject: Re: Kashmir ruby
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:37 pm 
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They're from an unrelated deposit also in (or sort of near) Kashmir in Pakistan. These don't command a premium in value, though some yield impressive trapiches, even facetable trapiches which I love.

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 Post subject: Re: Kashmir ruby
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:56 pm 
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There are a few corundum deposits in the Azad Kashmir region, but unlike the Indian kashmir sapphires, the origin doesn't carry a particular premium beyond the unusual locality for collectors.
Very fine rubies from Azad exist, they are super, super rare. The nicest I've ever seen was 1/3 of a ct.


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 Post subject: Re: Kashmir ruby
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:58 pm 
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Might also be a helpful reminder that kashmir sapphires are coveted because of their reputation for beautiful deep colors and velvety appearance.

If a sapphire is from kashmir but looks like garbage, it doesn’t magically get all the kashmir premium :)


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 Post subject: Re: Kashmir ruby
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:04 pm 
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JackTrick wrote:
If a sapphire is from kashmir but looks like garbage, it doesn’t magically get all the kashmir premium :)


I agree it shouldn't, but it does in the market.


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 Post subject: Re: Kashmir ruby
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:54 pm 
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right, I dont see the Pakistani Kashmir stones going for a very high premium at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Kashmir ruby
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:22 pm 
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Hello all,

This deposit is known as Batakundi, with other nearby locations. They have been referred to "Kashmir Rubies" however on the Pakistan side or rather 'Azad Kashmir'. When the deposit was actually located and mapped though the deposit is not even within the boundary of Azad Kashmir. It is close, but outside this political boundary.

The market likes to still use the 'Kashmir' provenance because they believe that it will sell easier and for more money. This I cannot speak to however I do regret that there are labs who have actually issued reports for this material, using the Kashmir name. Early on, some labs called straight Kashmir. Later some modified the designation to: Pakistan (Azad Kashmir). However as indicated the deposit isn't even within the Azad Kashmir border.

For AGL, we call the origin as: Pakistan. No other mention.

This material can be quite interesting actually and so should be appreciated for what it is, rather than trying to pass it off for something that it isn't.

Only my opinion of course. Best regards to all, be well and stay healthy,
Christopher P. Smith


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 Post subject: Re: Kashmir ruby
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:30 am 
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Batakundi mine is indeed within Pakistan but two major deposits at Nangi Mali and Chitta Khatta are well within Kashmir with govt of Azad Kashmir having administrative control over these. They sell once or twice through an auction at Muzzaffar Abad ; the capital city of Azad Kashmir .

most labs including Lotus and GIA , give common origin as Kashmir-Pakistan for all of these mines perhaps for geographical reasons than political divide . The stone in pic is a Nangi Mali stone.

There is no price premium for kashmir name in ruby market beyond curiosity.


<a href="https://imgur.com/5f3gnVE"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/5f3gnVE.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>


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 Post subject: Re: Kashmir ruby
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:36 am 
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let me try this link.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Kashmir ruby
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:25 pm 
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Christopher P. Smith wrote:
Hello all,

This deposit is known as Batakundi, with other nearby locations. They have been referred to "Kashmir Rubies" however on the Pakistan side or rather 'Azad Kashmir'. When the deposit was actually located and mapped though the deposit is not even within the boundary of Azad Kashmir. It is close, but outside this political boundary.

The market likes to still use the 'Kashmir' provenance because they believe that it will sell easier and for more money. This I cannot speak to however I do regret that there are labs who have actually issued reports for this material, using the Kashmir name. Early on, some labs called straight Kashmir. Later some modified the designation to: Pakistan (Azad Kashmir). However as indicated the deposit isn't even within the Azad Kashmir border.

For AGL, we call the origin as: Pakistan. No other mention.

This material can be quite interesting actually and so should be appreciated for what it is, rather than trying to pass it off for something that it isn't.

Only my opinion of course. Best regards to all, be well and stay healthy,
Christopher P. Smith


When someone asks me (and I get the question often) "Where should I send my gem for origin/treatment determination?"

Without a second of hesitation the answer is American Gem Lab.


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 Post subject: Re: Kashmir ruby
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:32 am 
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Great advice here, im guessing those other labs will catch on in the future


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 Post subject: Re: Kashmir ruby
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:49 pm 
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Christopher P. Smith wrote:
Hello all,

This deposit is known as Batakundi, with other nearby locations. They have been referred to "Kashmir Rubies" however on the Pakistan side or rather 'Azad Kashmir'. When the deposit was actually located and mapped though the deposit is not even within the boundary of Azad Kashmir. It is close, but outside this political boundary.

The market likes to still use the 'Kashmir' provenance because they believe that it will sell easier and for more money. This I cannot speak to however I do regret that there are labs who have actually issued reports for this material, using the Kashmir name. Early on, some labs called straight Kashmir. Later some modified the designation to: Pakistan (Azad Kashmir). However as indicated the deposit isn't even within the Azad Kashmir border.

For AGL, we call the origin as: Pakistan. No other mention.

This material can be quite interesting actually and so should be appreciated for what it is, rather than trying to pass it off for something that it isn't.

Only my opinion of course. Best regards to all, be well and stay healthy,
Christopher P. Smith

I even have seen Blue Sapphires from that area, some lap mentioned the origin cAzad Kashmir' while some mentioned 'Batakundi Kashmir Area' does AGL also categorize them as Pakistan?
These Origin terms has huge effect on price. Everything about Kashmir politics and borders and even it's gem origin is confusing, there are Blue Sapphires with Old Certificates that now now they don't get Kashmir anymore and instead they get Madagascar

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 Post subject: Re: Kashmir ruby
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:51 am 
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Hello Farshid,

Here at AGL, we have seen quite a number of these Batakundi blue sapphires. We issue the origin as Pakistan. Particularly because Batakundi is not even within the political borders of Azad Kashmir, there is no mention of the term 'Kashmir' in any context indicated on our reports for such material.

Best regards to all, be well and stay healthy,
Christopher P. Smith


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 Post subject: Re: Kashmir ruby
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:51 pm 
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Would you happen to know if this material is often heated? Also, would you be able to tell the origin if they were heated?

Out of curiosity, I was talking to a local miner who has heated some of this pinkish white milky sapphire, which he says does turn blue but the heaters in lahore are not very good at heating them. He was able to get them quite blue but looking a little burnt or over cooked or somethings not right. anyways, anyone have any experience with this matter? he was saying a proper burner may be able to correctly heat them, he has samples if anyone is interested connecting with him to try and heat this stuff. he would like to know the outcome.


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 Post subject: Re: Kashmir ruby
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:45 am 
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Most of the "Kashmir" ruby I've had (consignment through another dealer) & have seen for sale has a strong purplish secondary modifying color. To the extent (only my opinion) that ruby is a stretch. Though I know Asia has a different standard & it is all subjective to each person. Most of the material I seen was not treated. The color being, well, not real impressive, even for what it is. I'm sure they may find some higher tier specimens, but I've not seen them.

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