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 Post subject: Re: Paraiba tourmaline the evolving myth.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:41 am 
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And then there was the time, when the crew from the GIA went to Mozambique to insure that they got authentic samples from the new deposit of cuprian/paraiba type tourmaline. Their write up in Gems and Gemology really seemed to focus on the myth making of their host. A man that was not involved in the discovery, development or even in control of the future of the deposit. He was an east African that was called in, when it became politically inconvenient for an African of European decent to control resources in Mozambique, to front the operation. After accepting this man's story without reservation, the group of gemological adventurers did purchase some specimens for analysis, "directly" from the mine. After returning to their laboratory, it was discovered that one piece was flourite and a couple more were of water worn glass from coke bottles. Apparently doing simple gemological testing in the field to verify the authenticity of their purchases was either not planed for or they lacked the time to do them. (They did have a wonderful time.) I wonder if they ever had concerns about the real tourmaline, they bought from the "authenic" miners, even being from Mavucu.

If this august group of authorities could not spot cuprian tourmaline by eye, how can a hyper active Brazilan expect to spot the suspect? Of course he can not. (And any material that is presented as coming from Batalia is suspect to me.)

Bruce


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 Post subject: Re: Paraiba tourmaline the evolving myth.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:37 pm 
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I went ahead and told him that it wasn't a paraiba from Batalha and that it didn't have copper in it.
Am I wrong to do this?? :^o
It feels weird telling someone their stone doesn't have what they want, when I have no tangible proof or evidence that it does or doesn't! It's like the "reverse" of what the seller of this stone did with it!!
He said it was copper bearing and from batalha with no lab report or proof that it does or doesn't. I did the same thing...only backwards...LOL
Hmmmm..I wonder who is right!!

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 Post subject: Re: Paraiba tourmaline the evolving myth.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:31 pm 
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On the other hand, quotes of 50/g for pedestrian tourmaline rough are becoming depressingly common.

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 Post subject: Re: Paraiba tourmaline the evolving myth.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:07 pm 
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It was the humain thing to do. The odds in your favor are so great that it makes it a bet that even I would take. But then I have taken some pretty iffy bets on tourmaline, so I am not a very good example of being conservative. Anyway you did it and it is done.

Bruce


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 Post subject: Re: Paraiba tourmaline the evolving myth.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:05 pm 
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This is that Brazilian kids friend in Brazil, supposedly, that has some "paraiba" rough he is going to sell this kid(the one who has been contacting me). He sent me this link a couple weeks ago.... I figured I would post it here just for the heck of it. I hadn't seen it before anyways.
{edit}Forgot to add the link
https://youtu.be/jPD_JnKF4fA

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 Post subject: Re: Paraiba tourmaline the evolving myth.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:00 am 
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sheesh...this poor kid is buying [quote] "paraiba" [unquote] from this ebay seller..LOL.
I've been doing a public service and explaining to him the ins and outs, as well as pitfalls, of buying paraiba in general, especially on ebay, and he goes and links me to this ebay seller who he says..."sounds honest" and has just started selling his "collection" after 10 years of collecting and that is why he is selling them so cheap!!!!!
I told this kid to run...turn and run the opposite direction as fast as you can!!! Sadly, he already bought that green stone I posted earlier for $149.
I have repeated and repeated the fact that he needs to get a lab report or some confirmation of Cu.
I don't think it's getting through though.....tired of trying to help and explain many of the same mistakes I made as a greenhorn :mrgreen: , all in the hopes he will take heed and actually listen.
Oh well.....
funny thing is....
I spent an hour or more explaining things and what to do earlier this evening, on top of the many other correspondence these past few months, and I go to ask him who he keeps talking about on ebay that has "real paraiba", and he has the nerve to tell me he doesn't want to link me to the ebay page because he doesn't want me buying up any of the "paraibas" he wants...LOLOLOL Hahahaha.
Link posted below to this "ebay page

I said...

"dude...really? [-X I will just search "paraiba rough" on ebay and match up the pictures you have been showing me!!!" [-X #-o

Then I saw the seller had only 7 feedback and I slapped myself across the forehead and said "well, I tried" #-o #-o

Only 2 specimens on there look like they might be Batalha Material and those are the matrix pieces.
Still baffles me and confounds my common sense reasoning, as to how people can blindly purchase stones that could be anything that anyone says they are!! Then I remembered at one point in the very beginning, I too, was naive like he is.
My first purchase ever..... was a tanzanite that turned out to be iolite!

Luckily, I found Gemologyonline and the fantastic folks on here to help teach and guide me, as well as countless others in the gem and jewelry market!! :D 8) 8) 8)

http://www.ebay.com/sch/raregems83-0/m. ... pg=&_from=

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 Post subject: Re: Paraiba tourmaline the evolving myth.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:53 am 
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"
When I run in to someone like your Brazilian fellow, I say to myself, There is no one so blind as someone who will not see."

Another Paraiba discovery that amazes me is the abundance of high clarity larger tourmaline that are suppose to come from Batalia and a complete lack of smaller included gemstones from Batalia on the inter net. (unless they are made into cabs that usually have matrix.) I think that I might be sending one of my nicely toned Laurellites to a "Clarity Laboratory". It has decent crystal, but a significant wave of inclusions that obstruct seeing into the stone very well. It won't stay in the collection anymore, but I may give it to my older daughter, if it still shows the reverse color change well. But first I will get to see up front and personal, what many of the so called "high clarity" Paraiba's have had done to them. I have to save up a little mad money first,since the process I am thinking of, runs a $100 a carat.

Finally I am a firm believer in that, LUCK comes to those who WORK at it and take RISKS.

Bruce


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 Post subject: Re: Paraiba tourmaline the evolving myth.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:41 am 
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I truly hope your daughter already has one of your reverse alexandrite colorchangers, Bruce!!!
By god man tell me she has one!!! It's named after her and it sure would be ironic if she didn't have one..LOL. [-X
Well, her dad is Bruce, and Bruce does have addiction issues with tourmalines!!!! :lol: :mrgreen: :oops: :lol: :D

I don't know why I have spent so much time trying to teach this Brazilian kid the in's and out's or everything in stones. It's weird because he just messaged me out of the blue on my Youtube channel, and I have been staying in touch and spending lots of time typing responses to him about all these questions he has. I get messages from lots of folks and I typically don't spend this much time and effort with a greenhornwho doesn't seem to want to listen.
I am having my first baby in 6 weeks, so maybe it's a primal fatherly instinct showing up from the depths of my mind and trying to guide this boy in the right direction.
Oh well....
I linked him to your webpage, Bruce, and told him to read the material on there and learn some of the writings you have up. We shall see.

That ebay seller I linked above, has a sale for a parcel of "paraiba tourmaline from Brazil, Nigeria, and mozambique"
All 3 in one...LOL. And oddly enough, they are all nice prismatic crystals with no rough features, rounded edges, or fragments...hahah

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 Post subject: Re: Paraiba tourmaline the evolving myth.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:23 am 
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Now I plead for some compassion. With the supply of tourmaline rough for the likes of me just about disappearing from the market and a certified addiction, I can visit a clinic for free, the hoarding instinct grew strong. I am trying to educate her a "little" about selling and valluing my babies, but I am keeping them together for security reasons. She has two toddlers and is expecting a third in July, all in about four years. She will be blessed in the end, but my best Laurellites will have to go into museums because the Trade certainly will heat them to paraiba blue if they get their hands on them. Or they might be "mined" for their gold content, which is higher than the average level in the earth's crust according to a "GERMAN" lab whose findings have never been dupicated. I figure the next step in the evolving myth will be centered on three wise Brazilian miners follow the star of Batalia to the blessed pegmatite. Oh, I would really jump on the mixed bag of well crystalized Paraiba tourmaline from all three known locations, They sound heaven sent, because they certainly did not come from the right earth or contain the right stuff. But then maybe they have been colored by the bulk diffusion of copper treatment in a hideout high in the Himalays of Thialand. The opportunities to augment the already plucked and pruned Paraiba "story" are monumental.

And I have to end this post with one more opinion. PARIABA TOURMALINE IS NOT VALUABLE BECAUSE IT IS RARE. Rarity is at best, only part of the story of the glorius gemstone. Only a few addicted souls would have purchased Paraiba because its unheated colors in the blue purple range are very rare in tourmaline. Paraiba had to make it despite being a tourmaline No one really knew how much Paraiba there was going to be in the beginning, but the price rose. Why, because it was beautiful and even if tons more of it are found it will still be beautiful and demand will increase for it and it will be valuable. Sapphire in all its many colors is not rare, but it is valuable (as with Paraiba it has to be quality material) So stop focusing on Paraiba's rarity that has reach mythical propotions in some cases and focus on its beauty, a beauty that can be appreicated every day, if you just have enough resources to get one.

Bruce


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 Post subject: Re: Paraiba tourmaline the evolving myth.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:33 pm 
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I just love your sarcastic post and dry humor you use when writing. reminds me a little of Dave Barry from the Miami Herald newspaper.

The funny thing is, last night as I chatted on Facebook with my naive brazilian friend, I actually asked him if he knew about the gold being found in Paraiba....this is what he said back to me verbatim
"yes I have, and in good quantity too[heard about gold in paraiba]
I heard that it is one of the ways you can tell if is from Brazil and not Africa"


Sigh....I then googled gold in paraiba and it was webpage after webpage with that same exact false info about the German foundation.

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 Post subject: Re: Paraiba tourmaline the evolving myth.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:13 pm 
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With Paraiba it is really too easy to get me started. Years ago I emailed the GERMAN lab in question and announced that they had single handedly discovered gold in Paraiba tourmaline. The lab does exist and they emailed me back in essence, WHO SAID THAT?. I told them to look/google the inter net. I never heard anything more.

I have had a couple of my Laurellites tested with laser ablasion and the most exceptonal element found in them was around a ppm of silver. But the most interesting element to me was lead (outside of copper). When I first sent my Laurellites to the GIA, they found lead and thought it was contamination from my pollishing them. Then they realized that lead is "common" in cuprian tourmaline. Recently when I was the Washington University in St. Louis they tested one of my most recent stones. It is the best Achroite I have, when you combine size, lack of color, purity and brightness. With their micro probe, the tourmaline looked liked it had about 1 weight per cent lead. Now I had to look into this and I found, in a seemingly endless list of end members for the tourmaline group a "yet unnamed lead dominated tourmaline!" The lead is found in the x location where you usually have elements like sodium, calcium (lead is chemically similar to calcium) and vacancies etc. Wow, what a change in the status of lead in tourmaline, All of it brought to you by advanced technology that is more broad band and does not have to be specifically calibrated to see lead. When I spilled the beans on GO a bit ago I got confirmation that a gemology lab of note does see some lead dominated tourmaline.. I am still rather amazed. I think that it should be called Rhinestoneite after the wonderfull leaded glass rhinestones of the past. (Are they still around?)

Bruce

Bruce


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