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 Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:25 pm 
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Actually, I don't think they were try to make imitations of rutilated quartz. As they used genuine gold(imaging how much particle gold is needed to add into the autoclave to grow specimens like this), and gold particles in water are hard to recycle , it could be a very expensive process.
Among all the specimens I have , just a few of them have gold wire inclusions and only one is up to the standard of imitations of rutilated quartz.(Check the picture and video below)
Thus , I think those stones are the products of some kind of experiment in order to make something entirely new.
Still, there are methods to further study these stones. For example ,we can test the different layers of the stones to see if they used natural quartz as seed, or we can analyse the fluid inclusions in the stones to see what kind of nutrient solution they used to grow these specimens. But, these tests could be destructive.
Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37uFtPdFML4


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Last edited by zbhjzm on Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:27 pm 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
Who did you work with these?
Please supply their name.
Did Nathan Renfro arrange this for you?

Nathan is the one who examined these specimens.


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 Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:40 pm 
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Super!
Perhaps he'll write a wee article on the specimens for G&G.
Do you still have a source for this stuff?

Do you think the natural qtz inclusion could have been introduced just like the gold in these samples?


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 Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:24 am 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
Super!
Perhaps he'll write a wee article on the specimens for G&G.
Do you still have a source for this stuff?

Do you think the natural qtz inclusion could have been introduced just like the gold in these samples?

As the specimens are very complex and there are still many questions unanswered, he might not going to publish anything about these stones.
The specimens I have are all cut from the same batch of rough stones. I'm not sure if there will be any more of this stuff on the market , I'll let you know if I find any.
I guess natural quartz inclusions like angel's feathers are not something that can be artificially introduced , even if there are something like these in synthetic quartz, they are there by accident, not intentionally introduced.
So,I think even now ,we still can not entirely rule out the possibility of natural origin. Hydrothermal fluid containing gold particles produced the gold in quartz minerals in nature.
I guess it is possible that it could also create something like those specimens.As the specimens seem to have natural cores.So if the stones are natural, they might have gone through a process of dissolving and crystallizing like synthetic quartz. But we can not confirm anything unless we get some rough specimens or do some destructive tests like microthermometry and age dating tests on them.


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 Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:00 am 
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As zbhjzm mentioned, I was able to examine 3 of these stones, which took quite a while to arrange as I went to Hong Kong this month and the stones were in China, so finally the logistics worked out. I was quite hoping these would be natural as the photos are fascinating. Unfortunately, I could not find anything natural about them at least in the potions that contained the gold (Which was conformed to be about 99.9 percent pure and lies above a phantom plane). One of the stones at least had some minute features that looked natural to me in the clean layer under the gold. These appear to me to be a remarkably sophisticated synthetic, and really unlike any I have examined before. Elise Skalwold wrote up a note about creating synthetic quartz with garnet inclusions a while back in the Microworld column of Gems and Gemology, and I suspect something similar here. I’m unsure if I want to publish these stones at this time because I think part of the story is missing, like where these came from and how they are produced. Maybe in time some of these other details will be known. Anyway, very fascinating stones all the same and I thank zbhjzm for sending 3 of them to Hong Kong for me to examine.

Nathan

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 Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:22 am 
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Nathan Renfro wrote:
As zbhjzm mentioned, I was able to examine 3 of these stones, which took quite a while to arrange as I went to Hong Kong this month and the stones were in China, so finally the logistics worked out. I was quite hoping these would be natural as the photos are fascinating. Unfortunately, I could not find anything natural about them at least in the potions that contained the gold (Which was conformed to be about 99.9 percent pure and lies above a phantom plane). One of the stones at least had some minute features that looked natural to me in the clean layer under the gold. These appear to me to be a remarkably sophisticated synthetic, and really unlike any I have examined before. Elise Skalwold wrote up a note about creating synthetic quartz with garnet inclusions a while back in the Microworld column of Gems and Gemology, and I suspect something similar here. I’m unsure if I want to publish these stones at this time because I think part of the story is missing, like where these came from and how they are produced. Maybe in time some of these other details will be known. Anyway, very fascinating stones all the same and I thank zbhjzm for sending 3 of them to Hong Kong for me to examine.

Nathan

Thank you very much ,Nathan.
I'll continue to pay attention to see if I can get more specimens or information to complete the story.


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 Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:49 pm 
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I thought it appropriate to post a link to Elise's G&G article from 2016, entitled
Garnet Inclusion Illusion:
Image

READ MORE

Ms. Skalwald continued her research on the Evolution of Inclusion Illusion here:
Quote:
Image
An improbable green “shrub inclusion.”This quartz cabochon with natural chlorite inclusions was modified by drilling into the back and filling several resulting tubes with brightly colored material. The cabochon’s base was then coated to resemble natural matrix and to hide evidence of the drilling. 42.5 x 33 x 18 mm; 176.05 ct; origin, Brazil; specimen courtesy of Luis Lozano, “Lozano Gemologos,” Madrid. (Photo by Adolfo De Basilio, “Analytica Promota Gemmis SL,” Madrid)

Direct link to article:
http://www.nordskip.com/2016_Inclusion_ ... nColor.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:58 am 
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Update a little bit...
Recently, I have carefully examined the specimens which I didn't submit to GIA (if I had known that the specimens are so sophisticated, I would have submitted all of them to GIA) and found more confusing features.
1. I think I did find hematite inclusion. It is in the layer which contains gold inclusions. (PIC1,PIC2)
Image
Image
2. I found some unknown green crystals in one of the specimens. (PIC3)
Image
3. I found out that many of the gold inclusions are in the interfaces where two quartz crystals meet. (PIC4,PIC5)
Image
Image
4. I found out that the black inclusions in the specimens are commonly found on the surface of natural quartz (or inside natural quartz as inclusions) (PIC6,PIC7)
Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:43 pm 
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:smt102
Please. as much as you want these to be naturally occurring, they are not.
Where are you getting these specimens?
Share the source.


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 Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:25 pm 
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I don't think he's offering them as evidence of a natural origin, just to give more details about this unusual material.
It's hard to guess what the inclusions might be. Red inclusions are usually hematite in natural quartz, but this stuff grew is a weird synthetic environment, so in theory it could be something more exotic.

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 Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:59 pm 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
:smt102
Please. as much as you want these to be naturally occurring, they are not.
Where are you getting these specimens?
Share the source.

I merely present the facts I found, In order to deepen our understanding of this new material.
The specimens are from Donghai County in China. This town is called "the county of rock crystal". Quartz stones(including synthetic materials) from all over the world are cut and sold in this town.
This is how the business works:
The stones are shipped in containers to Donghai (PIC1) and immediately sold to dealers who will later sell the stones on the rough stone market(PIC2). Then sellers who have their own workshops will pick up the rough stones and cut them into jewelry and sell them on the retail market(PIC3). This is why there is no way to trace the source of the stones and same kind of stones can come from different sellers. The only way to get something more is to pay close attention to the retail market. If the stones are synthetic , I guess they will make more .I can help you and anyone else who wants to study this stuff looking for more specimens.


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PIC1.jpg [ 91.56 KiB | Viewed 2052 times ]
PIC2.jpg
PIC2.jpg [ 73.77 KiB | Viewed 2052 times ]
PIC3.jpg
PIC3.jpg [ 92.58 KiB | Viewed 2052 times ]


Last edited by zbhjzm on Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:03 pm 
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Stephen Challener wrote:
I don't think he's offering them as evidence of a natural origin, just to give more details about this unusual material.
It's hard to guess what the inclusions might be. Red inclusions are usually hematite in natural quartz, but this stuff grew is a weird synthetic environment, so in theory it could be something more exotic.

Yes , These are the strangest stones I have ever seen. I think it is necessary to reveal all the details I found.


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 Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:13 pm 
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I wuld love to have one of these - I think they are beautiful.


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 Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:14 pm 
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Yes, please keep your eye out for more and ask a million questions to the seller.
And thank you for the pictures of the marketplace. Who are the main customers for the finished goods?


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 Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:16 am 
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dchallener wrote:
I wuld love to have one of these - I think they are beautiful.

OK,I'll look for more.


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