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 Post subject: new handy tools
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:36 am 
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After following a link on Gem-A MailTalk about diamond coating I found some nice new toys on that websites e-shop.

The first is a 5x magnifier that would be a great promotion tool (if you can get it with you company logo) - http://www.serenitytechnology.com/focusmagnifer.htm
The magnifier is 0.4mm thick .. about as thick as printing paper (5 pieces for $9.00).

And then they have a nice little gadget that fits in the palm of your hand. A 5900K daylight box for colourgrading at the great price of $64.50 . Battery operated, so you can use it anywhere.
Sounds like the perfect christmas gift to me (and for me if anyone loves me .. if everyone on the forum chips in $0.15, the thing is mine).
http://www.serenitytechnology.com/daylite-100.htm


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:35 pm 
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Cool stuff -- I wish I could see one of those light boxes. I wonder if the open sides of the "box" allow in too much ambient light. I imagine that would kill any benefit from the daylight equivalent lighting.

Being a Christian, I somewhat naturally checked out the "Credit Card Sized Bible". I loved the irony -- now you can keep your Bible in your wallet, but you'll have to have a microscope capable of 200x to read it!

Then I checked out the "Company" link and was surprised to find this: http://www.serenitytechnology.com/diamondcoating.htm

I knew such treatments were possible, but I didn't realize a company was actively marketing them. Has anyone seen these diamond coatings in person?

I can understand coating emeralds & apatite to improve durability. But is there a legit reason to diamond coat CZ? ( http://www.serenitytechnology.com/pink-2.htm )

peter

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:05 pm 
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Goodness! That company almost seems to trade with the future! At least considered those prices, a 120x handmicroscope which actually has a usable field of view for less than a hundred bucks!

Have anyone here tried the stuff this company offers?

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 Post subject: diamond coating CZ
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:15 pm 
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hi guys:

Just a couple of thoughts on the diamond coating of coloured Gemstones.

As you can see from the posted addies it does make a very big difference in the look of the stone and would probably increase the price recieved if the treatment was not disclosed. While the coating should change the RI of the stone making it easy to detect it still would slide by a comsumer.

My question for the GGs here is could this treament change the "table flash" of a CZ to that of a diamond?

If so it could lead to a quick belief that it was a diamond rather than a simulant.

Also would the daimond coating be enough to fool one of the electonic "Gem Testers" used to tell the difference between diamonds and simulants?

I know its always easier to ask questions than answer them but I am waiting with interest to see what our GGs and FGAs think about this


Thanks

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:19 pm 
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Quote:
My question for the GGs here is could this treatment change the "table flash" of a CZ to that of a diamond?


Not sure what you mean by that Wolf, but a GG worth his salt would never make that determination based on that kind of characteristic.
Diamonds have visual inclusions that would never occur in CZ. Although I've never inspected one of these diamond coated CZs, I smell fish from here.

As for coated colored gems....any time your instrument readings don't jive with the suspected material red flags go off.

I think with some study of these treated gems, some simple diagnostics could be established.

Instinct tells me the most difficult would be a diamond coated with this material to improve it's brilliance.
I'll bet there's a way to bust these too. Just need some time and samples. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:32 pm 
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I don't think the concern here is about "fooling" someone with a "diamond-like" table flash on CZ, but about understanding a potential mechanism behind an anomolous data point (everything points to CZ except table flash) should one encounter it in the future. Surely being able to say "this is probably a diamond-coated CZ because everything points to CZ except for the table flash" is better than saying "well, everything points to a CZ except for a weird table flash... I don't know what could cause that". ;)


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 Post subject: characteristics of diamond coated CZ
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:48 pm 
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hi gem-noob:

"everything points to a CZ except for a weird table flash... I don't know what could cause that"

If the CZ is daimond coated would the RI be a diamond RI or a CZ RI?

I'm guessing that the RI would be close to that of a diamond.....

don't know for sure haven't had one to check it on, but would sure like to.

Wondering just how much a layer of diamond would change all the optical properties of the stone.. *shrug* ..... don't know.

Do know that we can "speculate" for ever on it ( :) that doesn't cost a thing).

Waiting for someone to test a diamond coated CZ and enlighten us :idea:

Thanks

wolf

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 Post subject: table or pavillion flash in diamonds and its simulants
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:00 pm 
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hi Jb

There is an excellent thread on the forum that deals with table or pavillion flash.

I should have noted it before I posted this. :oops:

In a nut shell diamonds and each of the simulants have a different colour
pavillion colour flash in colourless brilliant cut stones.

CZ has its own colour .. YAG ect.

Since the flash is an optical sign of the stone I was just wondering if the diamond coat would change the "pavillion flash"


Thanks

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:56 pm 
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Hi Wolf,

I think I participated in that thread discussion. After all is said and done...I just don't think pavilion flash is a reliable indicator of diamonds or simulants. To many possible overlapping characteristics.

Just gives us GIA folk something to play around with. :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:27 pm 
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JB -- I've found the pavilion flash test to be a pretty reliable confirmation test, but only a confirmation test. Separating some of the stimulants in the GG course work was annoying, but diamond from CZ was easy enough. But as you noted, there are usually easier paths to identifying diamond.

wolf -- the RI difference between diamond and CZ doesn't really help as both are beyond the range of the standard refractometer; outside of a decent gem lab, the average gemologist has no way of really measuring it.

However, I wonder if the diamond coating would be sufficiently thick to raise the RI enough so you couldn't see through the pavilion of a round brilliant coated CZ as you could an uncoated one.

I expect specific gravity would still be quite helpful here as a coated CZ would still have a higher SG than diamond.

In thinking about this from a faceting perspective, I suspect the CZs are not repolished after the diamond application. (The labor costs would likely be too much.) In that case, there should be at least some rounding to all of the facet junctions. You likely wouldn’t see the crisp facet junctions of a real diamond.

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 Post subject: RI of coated Gems
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:13 pm 
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Thanks PT

CZ was only one of my concerns:

This company is coating other Gemstones as well and I'm wondering, as you pointed out that RI for CZ and diamonds are both beyond 1.80 or the GIA's 1.81 refractive liquid if a good way to spot this treatment is that the RI of a gem would be "offscale" due to the treatment?

Thanks again for your insite into this mater

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:42 pm 
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Quote:
JB -- I've found the pavilion flash test to be a pretty reliable confirmation test, but only a confirmation test.


Right, in the wonderful world of RB cut diamond. :wink: .

Of course there's much more to consider when it comes to cut and treatments and what is and what isn't effective as a confirmation test.

Actually, I don't even like that word "confirmation" in this context. "Consideration" may be more appropriate under ideal situations.

Maybe I'll spring for one of these coated CZs to play around with and pass along.


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 Post subject: facet crispness in diamond coated gemstones
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:44 pm 
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thanks PT
"In that case, there should be at least some rounding to all of the facet junctions. You likely wouldn’t see the crisp facet junctions of a real diamond."

I'm wondering if facet crispness in all diamond coated gemstones might not be a tell tale sign that would give us a heads up that it was a stone treated that had been treated in this maner? :?

anyway just a thought

Thanks

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:38 am 
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Here is a page that shows pics of before and after of two stones treated with amophours diamond coating. http://www.betterthandiamond.com/educat ... page02.php


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:37 am 
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Thanks, red dirt. I guess a number of companies are doing this. The site you referenced seems to have an article on their process. Maybe I'll get a chance to read it later today.

JB -- you're right. I should have clarified, round brilliants only. The flash thing is completely useless in other shapes. I like "consideration" better. Good point.

wolf -- just to be clear: Sharp facet junctions indicate diamond, or at least something very hard. Rounded facet junctions are almost certainly something other than diamond or may be a coating.

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