January 24 Through February 4—TUCSON, ARIZONA: Annual show
Welcome to the GemologyOnline.com Forum
A non-profit Forum for the exchange of gemological ideas
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:55 am

All times are UTC - 4 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Wax Filling Or Natural Inclusion in Mozambique Rubies
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:47 am 
Offline
Active Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:57 pm
Posts: 96
Location: Mumbai, India
Hello Everyone,
I recently submitted a 3-Carat unheated Ruby from Mozambique to GIA. The GIA report mentioned that no heat treatment has been applied on the stone, however it mentioned a comment that "Wax is present".
Firstly, I want to know does the mention of this comment "Wax is present" mean that the stone is clarity enhanced using wax (i would assume common wax such as paraffin)? I have seen other GIA reports of other sapphires and ruby, which mention the stone to be "Clarity Enhanced" or "Clarity Enhancement Observed".So my question is what does "clarity enhancement" imply and what does "wax is present" imply on the type of filler present. Also is oiling considered as clarity enhancement by GIA?
Secondly, I saw the inclusions in the stone that GIA certified as "wax present" and I found some inclusions which were somewhat unique. The open fissures had sort of circular inclusion looking like same sort of filling. Initially i though these inclusions to be the basis of GIA giving these stones as waxed, HOWEVER I did a bit of research and i found the circular inclusions to be very similiar to the one mentioned by Vincent Pardieu in GIA field report of Mozambique Rubies
Here is the link to the report
http://www.giathai.net/pdf/Niassa_Mozambique_Ruby_September13_2009.pdf
The figure 9 in the report shows the type of circular inclusions I am Seeing
Here is the image:
Image
This appears to be the inclusion based on which GIA has put the "wax is present" comment as this inclusion is clearly visible in the stone I got certified.
What i saw in many other ruby from mozambique is similar inclusions in fissures sometimes accompnied by orange stains (probably Limonite). Since the occurrence of such inclusions is with these stains , I think of it as natural inclusion.
If anyone can elaborate on what this inclusion is and if it is natural or not.
I would say a lab like GIA wouldn't make a mistake, but you never know since mozambique rubies is an ongoing research in GIA....

_________________
Exotic Gemstones: All Natural & Untreated
The Star Ruby Shop


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wax Filling Or Natural Inclusion in Mozambique Rubies
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 4:38 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:53 pm
Posts: 2049
Location: Sweden
I have many times found this kind of inclusions in supposedly untreated Mozambique ruby. I have seen them deep inside stones. I think it would need some kind of heat and vaccuum pump to get wax in that deep. It should also easily dissolve in acetone which i often use to clean stones of greasy fingerprints. I have never seen any worsening in clarity after cleaning, quite the opposite. Any other suggestions? I would like to learn more of this kind of waxing... Hope it is not done in Brazil cause then I know what it will be called. :)

_________________
_____________
Conny Forsberg


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wax Filling Or Natural Inclusion in Mozambique Rubies
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 9:19 am 
Offline
Active Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:57 pm
Posts: 96
Location: Mumbai, India
Hi,
What I am concerned about is whether this type of inclusion is because of wax, or is it some kind of natural pattern occuring in rubies from Mozambique. Even in the field report by Vincent Pardieu, it is not clearly mentioned whether the inclusion is of natural origin. The occurence of such type of inclusion with orange stains makes me feel it may be natural.
Anyone who could tell me more about this type of inclusion would be very helpful.
Thanks

_________________
Exotic Gemstones: All Natural & Untreated
The Star Ruby Shop


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wax Filling Or Natural Inclusion in Mozambique Rubies
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 10:14 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:53 pm
Posts: 2049
Location: Sweden
My meaning is that it is natural but I will for sure look into this a bit deeper.

_________________
_____________
Conny Forsberg


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wax Filling Or Natural Inclusion in Mozambique Rubies
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 10:51 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:27 pm
Posts: 1750
Vismay,

Vincent is a forum member as well as a very nice and helpful guy. He's also very busy and might have missed your post. Why don't you pm him a link to your post and ask him nicely for his opinion.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wax Filling Or Natural Inclusion in Mozambique Rubies
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 2:38 pm 
Offline
Active Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:57 pm
Posts: 96
Location: Mumbai, India
Hi Frank,
I have posted Vincent Pardieu the link to this topic and I hope he can clear my ambiguity on this particular issue.
Thanks,
Vismay

_________________
Exotic Gemstones: All Natural & Untreated
The Star Ruby Shop


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wax Filling Or Natural Inclusion in Mozambique Rubies
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 9:08 am 
Offline
Gemology Online Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 718
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
Dear Vimay,
Interesting topic!
In the photo you are showing, the circular inclusions can be described as "partially died foreign substance filling in fissure". Such foreign substance are common in many stones that have natural fissures as you may have some liquid that penetrated naturally or by human action in these fissures and dried. When it is the result of a natural process, it is commonly called limonite or iron stain. It is very common in stones from secondary deposits.
Now an issue is that sometimes and this is particularly the case for rubies, stones are oiled in order to check the color of the rough and separate the fine color rough with lower quality material. The purpose is not to fill the fissures but to enable the light to travel inside the stones for the color to show... Then oil may be present in fissures and dry partically or completely.
Now of course you have also people (and this is a traditional practices in many markets like Jaipur in India, for many centuries) filling purposely these fissures with oil, parafin or wax in order to make the stone looks better hidding the natural fissures.

Now the problem for buyers and labs with such features is to identify if it is a substance that came naturally or that was placed by people.

In the case of organic fillers like wax, parafin or oil, using spectroscopy like FTIR, it is possible in some cases to identify such products in fissures. I guess that it was what was found in the stone you refer from. The difficulty when you see when a dried or partially dried liquid inside a fissure is that visually, if you are not an expert on that matter, an oil, wax, parafin or liquid that came naturally and dried, can looks very similar in my experience.

When at GIA we identify coumpounds such as oil, wax or parafin filling in ruby fissures, then it is my understanding that as a policy, we mention that on our reports.

Hoping to have helped,

All the best,

_________________
Vincent Pardieu

www.fieldgemology.org
www.conservationgemology.org

The views expressed here are V. Pardieu’s opinions and do not necessarily reflect those of GIA Laboratory Bangkok (http://www.giathai.net)where he is an employee since Dec 2008.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wax Filling Or Natural Inclusion in Mozambique Rubies
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 2:33 pm 
Offline
Active Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:57 pm
Posts: 96
Location: Mumbai, India
Hello Vincent,

Thanks for your reply. Your opinion is of great value.

Based on your reply I can make out two things -

1) That dried foreign substance in fissures is commonplace in rubies. I now remember seeing orange iron oxide stains in Burmese rubies as well. Are they also originating by the same mechanism?

2) To identify the difference between a man made substance forced into the fissures by vaccum and a natural substance entering the fissure, an anaylisis is required on FTIR (Would EDXRF also help to determine the nature of the filler as I know it is used in case of emeralds?)

Now, my concern here is that GIA has mentioned in the report just as "Wax is present", based on what you have said it is likely they saw such inclusions on the microscope, tested it under FTIR and based on the readings they concluded it to be wax. However, they have not worded it as "clarity enhancement" but rather, they have mentioned a rather generalized statement saying "Wax is Present". From my understanding, it is also a possibility that the filling might have been done to prevent the stone from disintegrating during polishing, as opposed to intended to increase the transperency of the stone.

Is there any remote possibility that such wax may be natural in origin? Or should we conclude on the basis of the comment "Wax is present" that the wax came there by human actions?

Regards,
Vismay

_________________
Exotic Gemstones: All Natural & Untreated
The Star Ruby Shop


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wax Filling Or Natural Inclusion in Mozambique Rubies
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:14 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:53 pm
Posts: 2049
Location: Sweden
If there is wax present it is most likely not there by natural causes if not human interaction should count as natural cause.

_________________
_____________
Conny Forsberg


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wax Filling Or Natural Inclusion in Mozambique Rubies
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:23 am 
Offline
Valued Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:36 am
Posts: 283
Vincent and others,

Can´t it be the wax from cutting that is still on/in the surface fissures?

_________________
Edward Bristol
http://www.WildFishGems.com & http://www.EdwardBristol.com
Exclusively Untreated Gemstones


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wax Filling Or Natural Inclusion in Mozambique Rubies
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:18 am 
Offline
Valued Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:36 am
Posts: 283
Vincent and others,

Was that a stupid question?

Left-over wax from cutting is wrongly considered a sign of treatment?

I suspect a similar issue with emerald. Residues of oil that was used during cutting leads to an "oil-treated" report though the rough was unoiled.

Tell me if this is nonsense for some reason.

_________________
Edward Bristol
http://www.WildFishGems.com & http://www.EdwardBristol.com
Exclusively Untreated Gemstones


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wax Filling Or Natural Inclusion in Mozambique Rubies
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:05 am 
Offline
New to the Forum or The Quiet Type
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:18 am
Posts: 7
Location: Pailin Cambodia
I'm checking Mozambique rubies at the moment and I came across this post.
It's as interesting as it's scary.
In some of the rubies I am checking I see unbroken needles and geometric flakes, so I guess they are not heated (right?).
But I do see some orange-ish deposits in some inclusions that have contact with the surface.
Now that I read about waxing in this 6 years old post, I was wondering if there are new techniques/tricks to know if these are natural or results of treatment that can be applied without heating.
:oops: Plus these stones have just been paid for, I need to know if I should refund [-o<


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wax Filling Or Natural Inclusion in Mozambique Rubies
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:24 am 
Offline
Valued Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:36 am
Posts: 283
It seemed that for a while some labs where so paranoid of NOT 'detecting' or naming all treatments that they radically noted anything and everything, even if it was likely that there was not a real enhancement (where is the border?) but rather 'unnecessary' left-overs from cutting and other innocent processes like giving a gem a final wipe with a not-so-clean (e.g. 'oily') cloth.

I've come across this error less and less over the last years (since this old thread), so I assume the labs are learning to distinguish, though some are slower than others.

_________________
Edward Bristol
http://www.WildFishGems.com & http://www.EdwardBristol.com
Exclusively Untreated Gemstones


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wax Filling Or Natural Inclusion in Mozambique Rubies
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:42 pm 
Offline
Valued Contributor

Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:16 pm
Posts: 331
A couple years ago Dick Hughes sent out an alert:
http://lotusgemology.com/index.php/2-uncategorised/315-lotus-gemology-lab-alert-for-oiled-gems

His suggestion was to look for sweating out of the oils with the use of a hot point.

If this test does not work, it could also be a glass/flux filling. Not neccesarily lead glass. But we've seen a number of Mozambique / Madagascar ruby that has been color and clarity enhanced with the use of heat/fluxes/colorants.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wax Filling Or Natural Inclusion in Mozambique Rubies
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:16 am 
Offline
Valued Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:36 am
Posts: 283
Well, things getting more complicated again. My remark above was mostly aimed at wax residues on rubies, not oil.

Coincidentally, we just got a batch of alexandrites back from DSEF (the german AGL) and they say 'minor surface oil'. We had 20 alexes from that mine and source before, all tested untreated, now this new result?

I am usually not in the 'dont-worry-be-happy' corner but I'm still inclined to believe my supplier that they all have gone through the same 'no treatment' process and the oil is an side-error. Then perhaps, who knows, somebody clever thought a nice dry-skin-night-cream would do them good? They have rough surfaces.

_________________
Edward Bristol
http://www.WildFishGems.com & http://www.EdwardBristol.com
Exclusively Untreated Gemstones


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Gemology Style ported to phpBB3 by Christian Bullock