National Shutdowns have put the lid on most shows.
Welcome to the GemologyOnline.com Forum
A non-profit Forum for the exchange of gemological ideas
It is currently Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:48 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Can pink sapphire be Diffusion treated to vivid pink?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 12:16 am 
Offline
New to the Forum or The Quiet Type

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:38 pm
Posts: 10
Location: wilmington, NC
Hi all, I'm looking at buying a 5 carat pink sapphire supposedly from Africa. The color is a vivid pink and clarity is VVS. It's not a very expensive stone and the dealer disclosed that it was diffusion treated. I thought BE diffusion was only used to add more yellow or orange to a stone. Is there another element or coloring agent they could be using to make the pink a better pink?

I guess I thought pink sapphires were only lightly heated, but apparently they can also be diffusion heated?

Any insight is greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Lucy


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Can pink sapphire be Diffusion treated to vivid pink?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 1:17 am 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:44 pm
Posts: 1076
Location: Washington State
http://lgdl.gia.edu/pdfs/su03a1.pdf Good article with lots of my favorite thing...pictures!
From this article it seems that beryllium enhancement is used to lighten many stones, not darken them. That vivid pink may have started out as a purplish red stone.

I know that everyone has their undies in a knot about BE treated sapphires, but if you know that it's treated, find the color pleasing and the price acceptable, it seems like a much better deal than buying a synthetic. Particularly since some of the colors produced by BE are just not available in synthetics.

_________________
Michael E.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Can pink sapphire be Diffusion treated to vivid pink?
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 12:05 pm 
Offline
New to the Forum or The Quiet Type

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:38 pm
Posts: 10
Location: wilmington, NC
Thank you so much for the quick reply. I feel like I have to assume everything is now BE treated because I think even the people selling the gems don't always know and can't tell with their equiptment. I guess if it's super cheap we can assume BE. Although it doesn't bother me if the price reflects it.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Can pink sapphire be Diffusion treated to vivid pink?
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 3:58 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:44 pm
Posts: 1076
Location: Washington State
luckylucy wrote:
I feel like I have to assume everything is now BE treated because I think even the people selling the gems don't always know and can't tell with their equiptment.


A sapphire which has inclusions that would be destroyed by the heat needed for BE, or even just heat treatment, has obviously not been heated or treated. With all other sapphires, especially those which are high enough in price to be concerned about, some lab testing is in order to tell just what's been done to them. Do you have any pictures of the stone you're considering? Not that we can tell anything from pictures, but it's always nice to see pretty stones.

_________________
Michael E.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Can pink sapphire be Diffusion treated to vivid pink?
PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 4:47 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:27 pm
Posts: 1750
Quote:
Do you have any pictures of the stone you're considering? Not that we can tell anything from pictures, but it's always nice to see pretty stones.


_________________


michael E ...Nice call...I like nice pictures too...as long as it's not some consumer photo thats eating up the sites bandwidth with no come back and results for us...
...Please luckylucy...let us know how this pans out...we are all professionals here...but we like to know what's happening from beginning to end...don't leave us in the "what happened about that???" So Lucy this becomes your proving ground....are you a student among pros (very welcome)...or a consumer looking for a quick price....(please go away)

could all the regular members please help us out with this...we don't want to be rude to anyone but the time we spend saying no to consumers is becoming a problem.

This is a site for professionals, educationalists, students, serious hobbyists just damn nice folk. :D lets send consumers to consumer sites....JAMIE / SWISHMAN springs to mind...a member who has always maintained a real consumer site but has learned to keep it separate from GO where he is a guru, a real asset, and a pain in the arse on rare occasions :D (luv ya really Jamie)

Please guys I'm not trying to force any rules...I'm just appealing to our regular members...help us out...send the obvious consumers away...ignore any spammers who get through our net, and continue to be real nice to the genuine folk who find our nest

Love ya all

Frank


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Can pink sapphire be Diffusion treated to vivid pink?
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:12 am 
Offline
New to the Forum or The Quiet Type

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:38 pm
Posts: 10
Location: wilmington, NC
JEEEEEES FRANK, ARE YOU SERIOUS?? I'm a GIA distant student and I also work in a jewelry store for a GIA gemologist. I am trying to pick out stones to design rings so I can make money to finish my courses and hone my design skills. So I'm all those things, a professional, a student, a designer, a hobbyist, and definitely a CONSUMER (if that's ok with you). Buying stones in Tucson and online is how I've learned a great deal about different grades of stones and treatments. I didn't really know anything about BE treatment until I considered buying this sapphire and all week I've been researching heat treatments. If it wasn't for being a consumer and having my money on the line I probably wouldn't have learned nearly as much.

I don't know why someone can't ask a question about a stone purchase without this having to be their "proving ground" And don't worry, I don't have a photo so I won't take up any of your band width.

Thank you Micheal E. for the article and the nice informative reply. I don't know if I'm going to put the stone in a ring to sell. I think it's just easier to pay more money for one that's not diffusion treated so I don't have have to go through the whole BE explanation when selling the ring. It will be interesting to get the stone under a microscope to check out the inclusions or lack of. I'll let you know what I see when I get the stone.

Thanks,
Lucy


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Can pink sapphire be Diffusion treated to vivid pink?
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 9:25 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 11:24 am
Posts: 7505
Location: Rome, Italy
Hi Lucy,

luckylucy wrote:
JEEEEEES FRANK, ARE YOU SERIOUS?? I'm a GIA distant student and I also work in a jewelry store for a GIA gemologist. I am trying to pick out stones to design rings so I can make money to finish my courses and hone my design skills. So I'm all those things, a professional, a student, a designer, a hobbyist, and definitely a CONSUMER (if that's ok with you). Buying stones in Tucson and online is how I've learned a great deal about different grades of stones and treatments. I didn't really know anything about BE treatment until I considered buying this sapphire and all week I've been researching heat treatments. If it wasn't for being a consumer and having my money on the line I probably wouldn't have learned nearly as much.


I'm not Frank so i cannot speak on his behalf but, as admin i will assure you that almost 99% of threads like this ends with the disappearing of the original poster after he/she gets infos from members with the sole purpose to have free-of-charge advices about what he/she has in his/her hands......... i think Frank was Pretty clear about the purpose of this forum, no need to repeat the concept...., in the end we don't wanna waste our precious time (i speak for myself here) on evaluating/appraise consumers stones, as Frank suggested there are many other places more suitable. However, as you clearly posted this is not the case.

Quote:
I don't know why someone can't ask a question about a stone purchase without this having to be their "proving ground" And don't worry, I don't have a photo so I won't take up any of your band width.


read above and, please, don't get it wrong :wink:

ciao and welcome to the forum
alberto

_________________
GemmoRaman-532 - GemmoFTIR - GemmoSphere - EXA


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Can pink sapphire be Diffusion treated to vivid pink?
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 12:32 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 20241
Location: San Francisco
Tone down the bravado, luckylucy.

As a GIA student and industry professional, you can certainly appreciate that a board such as this is often misused by folks who are one time drive bys never to be heard from again. These "members" usually post a consumer related question about a purchase they are considering. It is often accompanied by a litany of photos.

Our members spend a lot of time and energy answering questions in great detail, asking for further information and lab results which are never forthcoming. It is a waste of time and bandwidth.

GemologyOnline is NOT a consumer's platform. Our motivation for the sharing of information is not driven by profit.

I'm glad to hear you are an industry professional, but if your main interest is from the standpoint of a consumer, you may be in the wrong place. If that is the case, we will be happy to supply you with links for more appropriate venues.

We will be happy to discuss light element diffusion. :D


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Can pink sapphire be Diffusion treated to vivid pink?
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 1:15 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:27 pm
Posts: 1750
Well at least I got a reaction :D

It wasn't meant to be a personal attack on you Lucy it was just an appeal to the membership to help us deal with consumer posts of which we get a lot. If I'd known you were so sensitive I'd have posted a similar post elswhere rather than risk your short temper. On the other hand We have found out more about you on a single thread than we know about many folks after months of membership. Welcome to the forum...please do share any knowledge you have with the rest of us...chill out and lighten up I promise not to provoke you further for a least a week :lol:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Can pink sapphire be Diffusion treated to vivid pink?
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 12:01 pm 
Offline
New to the Forum or The Quiet Type

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:38 pm
Posts: 10
Location: wilmington, NC
I'm not a new member, I've been a member for a couple of years and can certainly appreciate where you all are coming from and all the expertise this forum offers. I'm sure people drive you crazy with their "consumer" questions. But Frank, it would have been better for you to post your concerns on it's own separate thread. Michael E. and I were having a discussion about a technical question i posted regarding BE diffusion in pink sapphire and if there are other possible elements or coloring agents used in the pinks. This posting would have been a lot more informative to read if the replies stuck to diffusion treatments. However, again, I appreciate that problem you are having with consumers.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Can pink sapphire be Diffusion treated to vivid pink?
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 3:01 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:27 pm
Posts: 1750
Ok fair enough...point taken, once again apologies


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Can pink sapphire be Diffusion treated to vivid pink?
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 3:41 pm 
Offline
New to the Forum or The Quiet Type

Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:34 pm
Posts: 4
i have a question how do you guys determine if sapphire is Be treated and what instruments do you use and how?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Can pink sapphire be Diffusion treated to vivid pink?
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 5:52 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 20241
Location: San Francisco
It can be complicated.
Here is a good article on diffusion with several links to other articles

Inclusions in Be Treated Sapphires

LIBS – A new beryllium testing method,by Richard W. Hughes


And, this one on Blue Be treated sapphires:
Here is the direct link, if you can't read the pdf below:
http://www.giathai.net/pdf/Beryllium_di ... h_2009.pdf

[pdfview]http://www.giathai.net/pdf/Beryllium_diffused_blue_sapphires_at_June_26th_2009.pdf[/pdfview]

And I stumbled on a technical article containing some interesting info:
Revelation of Causes of Colour Change in Beryllium-Treated Sapphires


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Can pink sapphire be Diffusion treated to vivid pink?
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 6:41 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 20241
Location: San Francisco
But, we still have not answered the question the original question:
Can a sapphire be beryllium treated to vivid pink?

I don't think so...any evidence otherwise?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Can pink sapphire be Diffusion treated to vivid pink?
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 9:57 pm 
Offline
Gemology Online Übergod
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:24 am
Posts: 4997
Location: McDonough GA
This doesn't constitute direct evidence, but I have never seen a vivid pink BE treated sapphire.

_________________
http://www.selectgem.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Gemology Style ported to phpBB3 by Christian Bullock