CIBJO releases Gemmological Special Report: considers process of separating measurable facts from opinion; See Gemological Articles below.
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 Post subject: Re: Bathroom Jade Treatment
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:41 am 
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Someone else nuking them in the past, empress just observing a gradual 'fall-back'.


Interesting thought Tim. Do you know of any experimentation? There are certainly cases of other gems having this happen. I'd seen some irradiated montebrasite that was green, that reverted to more of a blue under heat.


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 Post subject: Re: Bathroom Jade Treatment
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:57 am 
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Is it possible that infrared spectrometry will only detect polymer, not whether or not the jade has been bleached?

If the jade was bleached and no polymer added, could not what remains of the jadeite be more susceptible to impregnation by random chemicals and elements?


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 Post subject: Re: Bathroom Jade Treatment
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:49 am 
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Do you know of any experimentation?


Nopes, none apart from the ineffective 1973 ones described in that pdf... Stuff from one source not being affected does not mean that stuff from another source couldn't... Looking at the differences in effects we see in beryls this becomes all the more clear. Don't you live real close to one of the biggest and baddest reactors in the US?


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 Post subject: Re: Bathroom Jade Treatment
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:07 am 
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I don't believe there is any evidence that the bracelets Jason sold were subjected to a radiation treatment. He sold 3 relatively commercial quality bracelets.

Furthermore, I am aware of no Burmese jade in the marketplace which is treated with irradiation to improve or alter characteristics.

To quote George Rossman, "Just because something CAN be done, does not mean it is being done."

I am back to my question, can bleaching alone be determined with infrared spectroscopy?


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 Post subject: Re: Bathroom Jade Treatment
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:12 am 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
Is it possible that infrared spectrometry will only detect polymer, not whether or not the jade has been bleached?

If the jade was bleached and no polymer added, could not what remains of the jadeite be more susceptible to impregnation by random chemicals and elements?


Hi Barbara,
I also have not heard of any radiation being used on Burmese jadeite. The polymer is added to fill the holes made by the bleach thus if no polymer is added I doubt that the product would be of an appearance that could be sold. Best regards, Lee

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 Post subject: Re: Bathroom Jade Treatment
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:18 am 
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Thanks Lee.
So.....a bleached jadeite chunk could not be polished and faked up?
Interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: Bathroom Jade Treatment
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:35 am 
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There could be exceptions but from what I have seen the bleached ones will not polish well, the holes need to filled with something.

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 Post subject: Re: Bathroom Jade Treatment
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:13 pm 
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How about waxing them like used to be routine with "D" jade 30 years ago when the acid used for treatment was vinegar? And, the lavendar color would not be the result of polymer, but blueberry juice?


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 Post subject: Re: Bathroom Jade Treatment
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:51 pm 
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Good points, we need Bear to answer about what his tools will detect.

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 Post subject: Re: Bathroom Jade Treatment
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:30 am 
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Hi Lee,

As a general rule I use these instruments to do the following:

Raman: Mineral typing
XRF: Chemistry, does it have the right amount transition elements to warrant the appearance.
UV-vis: Typically used to for seeing the dye vs. natural color, also the Fe marker
FTIR: Used for polymer detection, paraffin waxes & other molecules that don't belong.

Naturally, the most important tool is the proper use of your eyes, and experience. I might show a piece of authentic Fei Cui to someone like Mimi OuYang or perhaps Dominic Mok and they could tell me the same results the machines would get just by looking at it.

The machines will give you their results, they just don't know any better. They also cannot tell you what will happen in the future. Kind of like this case, where it can do things after, like absorb colored oils, or perhaps oxidize with added external stimulae.

If I were periodically rinsed in water with a woman having strong chi and electromagnetic properties, I might also undergo changes...... wait a minute, this has actually happened to me!
:mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Bathroom Jade Treatment
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:06 pm 
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Hi Bear,
Yes, indeed. It never ceases to fascinate us either.
Thanks for the information about some of your tools....
All the best, Lee

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 Post subject: Re: Bathroom Jade Treatment
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:48 pm 
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If I were periodically rinsed in water with a woman having strong chi and electromagnetic properties, I might also undergo changes...... wait a minute, this has actually happened to me!


Well, that started my day with a chuckle! Thanks. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bathroom Jade Treatment
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:27 pm 
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http://www.jewellery-hk.org/jadelab2.php

According to the Hong Kong Jewellery & Jade Manufacturers Association website - 'A' Jade "is not subject to any form of chemical treatment except those traditional processes such as plum juice washing and wax polishing. These are not defined as 'treatment' because the structure of the jadeite has not been damaged."

So, maybe the mild colorings in my skin cream have overcome the gentle plum juice wash...

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 Post subject: Re: Bathroom Jade Treatment
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:31 pm 
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And from Mason Kay:
[pdfview]http://www.masonkay.com/images/bjadeguide.pdf[/pdfview]


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 Post subject: Re: Bathroom Jade Treatment
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:22 pm 
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Thanks, Barbra, for that.

It would seem that if it were "B" jade but no polymer was in it, that it would be more apt to take on colors from anything (like skin cream) pretty easily.

So, I've been thinking this over. Should I take off the bangle and try to soak it in acetone (?) and see if I can remove whatever is causing the green tinge and see if it returns to the original colors? Or would that just cause damage to the stone? Is there something else to try?

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