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 Post subject: CHATHAM v. RAMAURA RUBIES
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:50 pm 
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Hello hello! I was wondering if anyone could please help me. Regrettably, I do not have the knowledge and training of the members of this forum. I've read many threads and the level of analysis that goes into determining the makeup of a stone - whether ruby, sapphire, emerald, diamond, or any other creation - is very impressive. I have a lot of respect for all of you :)

My inquiry pertains to synthetic flux grown rubies. I would like to purchase a cushion shaped stone (approximately 3 carats) in order to have it mounted on to a ring. I have researched this and the two names which appear more than any other are Chatham and Ramaura. I was able to contact Judith Osmer of Ramaura and despite her retirement, she advised that I could still purchase some stones. As for Chatham, I located a vendor nearby who had a few samples to show me.

I have spent countless hours trying to find some information regarding a comparison of these two synthetic creators. By comparison, I mean VISUAL QUALITY. I haven't found anything. There are many threads and articles devoted to the examination of the internal markers of each (for instance, the fluorescent zoning in a Ramaura), but nothing on a basic external comparison.

As I am looking for a stone that captures the famous pigeon-blood hue, which of these stones would you recommend? Is Chatham the way to go? Or does Ramaura win the day?

Thank you very much in advance :)


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 Post subject: Re: CHATHAM v. RAMAURA RUBIES
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:23 pm 
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Does this help any? Ramaura crystals, 2.6 carat and 11-ish carats.

Attachment:
DSCN3902.JPG
DSCN3902.JPG [ 128.9 KiB | Viewed 4123 times ]




Cheers,
Hans Durstling
Moncton, Canada

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 Post subject: Re: CHATHAM v. RAMAURA RUBIES
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:48 pm 
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Thank you for responding, Hans.

These are lovely.

Have you seen Chatham rubies in person? If so, which one would you recommend (Chatham or Ramaura)? I've never purchased a synthetic stone.

About a year ago, I visited the Natural Sapphire Company in NYC. I was looking to purchase a padparadscha sapphire. While there, I also satisfied my curiosity and looked at rubies. Their collection was impressive and it made me want to rob a bank.

Since I don't have $200,000 lying in my account, I figured I would look for a synthetic stone. I am intending to have it mounted into a ring. Considering the fact that I'm clumsy and forgetful, I don't trust myself to make a high end purchase for something that small. The more expensive it is, the higher the chance that it will go down the drain. This is the law of my universe and I've come to terms with it.

Hence, I'm on the quest to find a nice synthetic ruby.

Once again, it was very nice of you to take the time to answer my inquiry, Hans. If you have any advice, I'm appreciative for it. :D

- Meryem


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 Post subject: Re: CHATHAM v. RAMAURA RUBIES
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:55 am 
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Honestly it's not going to make a huge difference--just make sure you get one that is well cut.

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 Post subject: Re: CHATHAM v. RAMAURA RUBIES
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:13 am 
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Meryems wrote:
Have you seen Chatham rubies in person? If so, which one would you recommend (Chatham or Ramaura)? I've never purchased a synthetic stone.


I've sold several Chatham rubies which I got from Stuller. They are very nice, but rather expensive for a synthetic with a retail price close to $400/ct, (about 1/2 that wholesale). I've never seen a Ramaura, but have heard they are very nice. Neither of those types are available as rough, so they must be purchased as cut stones.
If you just want a nice deep red synthetic ruby, the flame fusion stones are available in a very deep red and can be cut by any number of cutters around here or the USFG Faceters group at far less cost than the Chathams.

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 Post subject: Re: CHATHAM v. RAMAURA RUBIES
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:00 pm 
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Excellent advice. Thank you all!


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 Post subject: Re: CHATHAM v. RAMAURA RUBIES
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 3:14 am 
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How can I see the difference between a cutted (faceted) syn. Ruby Verneuil - Chatam - Ramaura with small equipment?

Verneuil: curved striae and gas bubbles?
Chatam: crumpled or wispy veil-like liquid feathers?

Something more?


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 Post subject: Re: CHATHAM v. RAMAURA RUBIES
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:15 am 
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In a flux synthetic ruby like Ramaura or Chatham you could find tiny platin platelets, coming from the crucible where it was melt. But not always.


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 Post subject: Re: CHATHAM v. RAMAURA RUBIES
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:58 am 
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Never heard about Ramaura before. :oops:
If speaking about bigger in what dimensions are these roughs or cutted stones on the market?
1) Verneuil Djeva
2) Verneuil Rubis RSA
3) Flux Chatam
4) Flux Ramaura

Are there other well-known company names?


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 Post subject: Re: CHATHAM v. RAMAURA RUBIES
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:06 am 
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Quote:
Are there other well-known company names?


The most known flux ruby manufactuers are Chatham, Ramaura, Kashan, Knischka and Douros. There is also some Russian production. Lechleitner and Douros have also manufactured overgrowths on natural/verneuil stones. Finding Knischka, Kashan or Douros from current market is very difficult.

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In a flux synthetic ruby like Ramaura or Chatham you could find tiny platin platelets, coming from the crucible where it was melt. But not always.


Ramaura stones are known not to contain any platinum inclusions. The same applies to Kashan production... I'd say a platinum inclusion is an indication towards Chatham or Knischka.

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 Post subject: Re: CHATHAM v. RAMAURA RUBIES
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:47 am 
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mikko, thank you very much.

The German Bitterfeld region is also well-known as a highly industrialized area for more than 100 years.
This I forgot to mention.

So I have to add Lechleitner and Douros to VEB Chemiekombinat Bitterfeld, Djeva and Rubis RSA as Verneuil manufacturers.


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 Post subject: Re: CHATHAM v. RAMAURA RUBIES
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:19 pm 
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http://www.amazon.de/Natürliche-synthetische-Rubine-Eigenschaften-Bestimmung/dp/3510651251

Still an awesome book!

Copy the URL - then it works...

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 Post subject: Re: CHATHAM v. RAMAURA RUBIES
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:58 am 
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Marlow, Thank you for the tip.
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 Post subject: Re: CHATHAM v. RAMAURA RUBIES
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:54 am 
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Meryems if you would be interested in having the smaller (2.6 carat) Ramaura cut, why not private message me. The big one stays in my personal collection along with the opalized clam fossil and the signed copy of "Ruby and Sapphire." :)

Hans Durstling
Moncton, Canada

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 Post subject: Re: CHATHAM v. RAMAURA RUBIES
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:37 pm 
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Hans Durstling wrote:
Meryems if you would be interested in having the smaller (2.6 carat) Ramaura cut, why not private message me. The big one stays in my personal collection along with the opalized clam fossil and the signed copy of "Ruby and Sapphire." :)

Hans Durstling
Moncton, Canada


I am not jealous - I am not jealous - I AM NOOOOOOT JEALOUS!!!!!

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