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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:00 pm 
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I think that without the treated stones the market for natural gems might all but die.



That's not the point.
No one is suggesting that the sale of treated stones be halted.
As I understand the point, treated stones should be referred to as treated stones, not as gems.

If someone were to ask for my opinion, I would agree...but no one asked. :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:03 pm 
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I agree with everything you've said Barbra. The point, as I understood it, was how we feel about treated stones. Not their disclosure. I feel that full disclosure should be non-negotiable.

I prefer natural stones, but the treated ones are necessary.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:16 pm 
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Since almost all emeralds are treated in some way to mask their defects, there are very few "gem" emeralds.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:58 pm 
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william wrote:
Since almost all emeralds are treated in some way to mask their defects, there are very few "gem" emeralds.

I think everyone would agree with that observation.


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 Post subject: Re: A gem must be untreated to be called GEM..!
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 1:28 am 
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TEDBKK wrote:
Are these treated gems rare? For years I have been saying that the definition of "gem" must be changed: A gem must be untreated to be called GEM..!


Ted,

Though I am not looking back at your experience, I can only agree.

95% of the stuff I see in jewelry, shops and at dealers is soul-less non-rare ugly something but no gems.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:58 am 
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What I feel about treated stones led me to a conclusion that I'll probably end up buying a synthetic one (as my first purchase). Reason - so many treatments among gemstones and so little honesty among people.

Eventhough I was thinking about buying a natural stone, the more I read, the more I was against it. Sure, I could get something that's certified, but it's just that today not even labs can detect all the treatments successfully. For instance, that one Edward mentioned on his website, about heated synthetic rubies being identified BY LABS as heated natural rubies especially freaked me out (eventhough I wasn't thinking about buying rubies). You start thinking what's next. I wasn't even thinking about buying a totally unenhanced stone, just something natural - but I sure am not prepared to splash the cash for something that not even labs can guaratee is not a synthetic.

Eventhough treatments did good in many areas of this industry, I think they'll do even more damage in the long run, cause they make it harder and harder to trust the seller.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:20 am 
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Hi m4816k.
You've raised several points here.
I agree there are dishonest and opportunistic gem dealers, and farmers and dentists and recyclers and car mechanics, etc.

There are also honest and reputable people in those professions. How do we find them?
I think forums, like this one, provide excellent insight into making educated choices and supporting those businesses who pride themselves in transparency and accurate representation of their inventories and services.

I honestly believe, m4816k, that once you decide what stone you would like, you will be able to one that is 100% properly represented. It won't be the cheapest, but it will be available.

True some labs have made mistakes, but this is the exception not the rule.
Don't throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:53 pm 
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Sort of jumping in a bit late here and after having read very few of the prior posts.

But as an interesting note as I read the AGTA code of conduct (that all AGTA members are supposed to read, sign and comply with including myself) I found that a recent thing they added was that dealer are no longer allowed to call gems "stones" all gems must be called either gemstones or gems as the feel the term "stones" sounds derrogative to the general public.

Now I think that a lot of the members may not have noticed this as the custom of calling gems "stones" is still very common among members but I think that this is supposed to be a rule.

This applies to all gems whether they be treated or not. Of course we are also required to state all treatments clearly as well (and I have found this to be a very good thing).

I will not say (nor am I totally sure) what I think of this policy on the word "stones" but as an AGTA member this is what we are supposed to abide by.

They also prohibit the use of the term "Semi Precious" as outmoded and confusing (I pretty much agree with that.)

Just thought this might make an interesting addition to the conversation.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:09 pm 
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The AGTA also calls all copper bearing tourmaline paraiba.
Their preference to call a fashioned stone a gem is an obvious marketing ploy....

I'll continue to refer to copper bearing tourmaline as copper bearing tourmaline and stones as stones. Most stones are stones, few are gems.


Yes, I now I'm a crusty old cynic, but that's part of mt charm :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:33 pm 
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Hi,

Treated stones and synthetics validate our profession. Without them we would degrade to assembly line workers who just run a stone through the refractometer/specific gravity mill and poop out a report.

I strongly object to the fact that with all the new treatments nobody's reports can be trusted anymore. That is just unnecessary instilling fear onto people. When someone feels uncertain in buying stones, don't buy them. It is that simple.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:52 pm 
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The consumer needs to get it out of their head that they are buying for investment. Gemstones are a lousy investment for the normal consumer. But they always want that unbelievable gem to tell their freinds about but do not want to pay a fair price for it.
Perhaps if the consumer were not so cheap, they would spend a few dollars to verify their purchases. As long as the scam artists know that they are too cheap to pay a gemologist, the scam artists will keep scamming them.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:52 pm 
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From how far can away can you judge the significance of a piece of jewelry being worn? 8)

... funny to think that at some point the average must have been more then an arm's length, not under visible range :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:17 am 
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stonecrazy wrote:
The consumer needs to get it out of their head that they are buying for investment. Gemstones are a lousy investment for the normal consumer. But they always want that unbelievable gem to tell their freinds about but do not want to pay a fair price for it.
Perhaps if the consumer were not so cheap, they would spend a few dollars to verify their purchases. As long as the scam artists know that they are too cheap to pay a gemologist, the scam artists will keep scamming them.


And what about stones that cost less than the report? Should we just not buy them at all?

BTW, some reports cost up to 150$, which might not be a lot for folks in the States, but there are parts of the world where that's considered a serious amount of money. I know gemologists are not to blame for it, just trying to explain how things sometimes work.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:17 am 
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Hi m4816k:

You have a valid point concerning the cost of documentation for a stone. Part of the problem is that with the internet when people look up a stone they are interested in they find a range of prices. Some low and some definitely not so low. The average consumer has no idea what the difference is between a loup clean stone and one with eye visible inclusions. All they see is the price, and most can't understand why the loupe clean stone with lab documentation is so expensive. This is especially so when some sites offer lab documentation for an extra 20 USD.


The best you can do is try to educate your clients. Ok, that
may a thankless job but it is your only hope.

There is an old saying that "Quality doesn't cost, it pays", unfortunately it is a hard lesson to teach.

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A Chinese proverb says "Gold is valuable, Jade is Priceless."


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:47 am 
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Hi,

I don't think a verbal report from a trained gemmologist in your area will cost $150.

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