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 Post subject: Has Anyone seen a ring like this before. No one else has
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:17 pm 
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:lol: Hi,

I recently bought this ring from a pawn shop a litle over scrap and have never seen anything like it before.

I have worked in the trade for a few years and study gemmology so have seen a fair bit of jewellery.

information gathered so far:

Tests 18ct but there are no hallmarks

The stones are natural rubies and sapphire and seem untreated/heated.

The ring looks like a casting which depicts a shield and armour helmet on the front and a sort of 3d/in relief family crest on th arms which seems to be and axe, arrow or wheatsheaf and axe with a river underneath on both sides and the stones unusually positioned and bezel set into the ring which is hollow at the top

Date wise people seem to think between 1920 and 1950 and the stones seem of and older cut and may have been used from a former piece of jewellery

I have shown this ring to Warski and Sj phillips and Christies and everyone seemed baffled at to what it was and had never seen anything like it.

I would appriciate any input that people might have about this ring


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 Post subject: Re: Has Anyone seen a ring like this before. No one else has
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:46 am 
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My guess would be a custom made family crest ring. I have made a few similar one-off's in my time.

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 Post subject: Re: Has Anyone seen a ring like this before. No one else has
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:39 am 
Nice!

Have a closer look at the design than the pics really permit.

The axe is definitely not a forester's tool but looks like the working end of a halberd (a 14th/15th C pole weapon, predecessor of the pike); or else it could be an executioner's axe. What I think you may describe as an arrow seems to me to be the tip of a lance or spear. Also, what you take to be (a sheaf of) wheat is more likely a sheaf of arrows.

The escutcheon is blank, suggesting that the owner was not entitled for a coat of arms but he or the ring's creator appreciated the code of heraldry well enough not to create a fake. The placing of the main gem where the coat of arms might be a statement of self-made wealth and the weapons of war supporting the escutcheon suggest he was, or had been, a soldier. In a 19th/20th C piece an owner without a coat of arms might have been tempted to have his monogram placed on the escutcheon. The deliberate exclusion of this as well as a coat of arms suggests that the piece was created as a statement of the owner's wealth and profession (of arms) rather than a statement of who he was. Was the piece created speculatively, for general offer of sale rather than being made to order? If so, soldiers (or ex-soldiers) could have been the logical target market.

Guessing the age of the piece is tantalising - but for the lack of any better idea early/mid 20th C seems likely enough. But is there any clue in the cut of the stones - the pics not being detailed enough to show this? The piece is not British and - somehow - it does not seem right as American. Italian designed maybe, c. 1940's?

Thanks for showing anyway. It's fun to speculate :)


Last edited by Kerensky on Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Has Anyone seen a ring like this before. No one else has
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:36 am 
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Or it was made for someone who took renaissance fairs very seriously!


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 Post subject: Re: Has Anyone seen a ring like this before. No one else has
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:44 am 
Or even both? :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Has Anyone seen a ring like this before. No one else has
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:33 pm 
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Hi,

Thanks for your replies especially Kerensky

The information you have provided is very helpfull.

If the ring was circa 1940's Italy Would have been a facist regime. Could the symbol which look like arrows infact be a bundle of sticks or fasces being fascist symbol. This would coincide with what you have so far suggested.

cheers

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Has Anyone seen a ring like this before. No one else has
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:33 pm 
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I figured the "wheat sheaf" was actually a fasces, which is where Fascism gets its name. While the fasces is a legit heraldic device, it would also lend credence to the idea of an Italian soldier's ring from the early 20th century.

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 Post subject: Re: Has Anyone seen a ring like this before. No one else has
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:30 pm 
upcyclist wrote:
I figured the "wheat sheaf" was actually a fasces, which is where Fascism gets its name. While the fasces is a legit heraldic device, it would also lend credence to the idea of an Italian soldier's ring from the early 20th century.


*Not* a fasces.

The symbolism is a pastiche.The helmet is late period and a style denoting noble birth (a commander). The weapons are common soldiers' weapons (rank and file), not a noble's weapons. The weapons are also essentially medieval (i.e. much earlier than the helmet style).

Given the 'late model' helmet, the assymetric setting of the gems suggests fairly modern manufacture. Also, in my ever so humble opinion, I don't think this is a ring a gentleman would either have commissioned or bought 'off the rack'. It's a ring for someone with a liking for things military but without having studied military history (i.e. not a professional officer); a man who has made some money and likes to flaunt that. IMO, there's an outside chance it was commissioned by some mercenary. Much more likely it was made for/bought by one of the hundreds of thousands of soldiers swilling around western Europe in the late '40's-'50s, a fair few of whom made small fortunes dealing in the black market, and who wanted to make his little statement with this lasting memento :roll:

Howzat for speculation? :lol: I'll be betting on single numbers at roulette next!


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 Post subject: Re: Has Anyone seen a ring like this before. No one else has
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:33 pm 
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Hi. I have added another photo that shows the bottom of the shank and shows what seems to be a river. Thanks for your insight and interesting speculations so far. Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Has Anyone seen a ring like this before. No one else has
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:25 am 
Is this not what I take to be a heraldic representation of a fesse (ancient military belt, often a reward for valiant service) seen more clearly in the first image, and often worked into coats-of-arms?


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 Post subject: Re: Has Anyone seen a ring like this before. No one else has
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:36 am 
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On what basis are the "wise" ones dating the ring 1920-1950?

The style of the rendering looks like 70's 80's to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Has Anyone seen a ring like this before. No one else has
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:50 am 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
On what basis are the "wise" ones dating the ring 1920-1950?

The style of the rendering looks like 70's 80's to me.



agree

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 Post subject: Re: Has Anyone seen a ring like this before. No one else has
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:44 pm 
Alberto wrote:
Barbra Voltaire wrote:
On what basis are the "wise" ones dating the ring 1920-1950?

The style of the rendering looks like 70's 80's to me.



agree


Why not. The design's a pastiche and no one thinks its antique.

What do you think of the cut of the stones (such as one can see of it)? With whom or where has there been a fancy for small tables in modern times?


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