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 Post subject: Re: Ah, the hazards of buying on Ebay
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:50 pm 
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The delta between Bob's "1 mm" and Robin's "0.1 mm" is this: modification. If you can't do that, you're not going to be able to set anything other than a calibrated stone in the matching calibrated setting. And it's usually not really that much modification--just a matter of squeezing the prongs in a touch in one dimension and moving them out in another.

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 Post subject: Re: Ah, the hazards of buying on Ebay
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:39 pm 
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I have done that, but it wasn't extremely successful. I might try it for the ones that weren't extremely off the mark.


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 Post subject: Re: Ah, the hazards of buying on Ebay
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:45 pm 
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Robin Winter wrote:
I have done that, but it wasn't extremely successful. I might try it for the ones that weren't extremely off the mark.


For more involved mods, unnotched settings can help. For example, if you move the narrow side of an oval setting in, the notches become higher relative to the long side. But then we're probably getting into more smithing tomfoolery than you're currently prepared for.

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 Post subject: Re: Ah, the hazards of buying on Ebay
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:18 pm 
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upcyclist wrote:
we're probably getting into more smithing tomfoolery than you're currently prepared for.



Probably so, but I'll get there eventually. I've got a whole mess of odd sized stones waiting for me to learn to build and modify settings. I guess I don't mind adding a couple more, it just bugs me that a seller that deals in that kind of volume can't be bothered to invest in some proper measuring tools. I could understand if it was somebody selling a few odd stones they picked up along the way, but this one deals exclusively in gems.


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 Post subject: Re: Ah, the hazards of buying on Ebay
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:40 pm 
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yeah, just because it has a 5 and a 7 in it doesn't mean it rounds to 5x7.

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 Post subject: Re: Ah, the hazards of buying on Ebay
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:02 pm 
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Al,

Why are you cutting calibrated sized stones? Isn't that causing a lower yield? What advantage is it to the cutter to cut a calibrated stone, especially as a hobby.

Tripps is a good company, what do you have against them?

I don't have my Rio Grande catalog handy as it's loaned out, but they, just like Tripps, make settings in mm sizes -- they even have some pre-notched settings. I will look through the catalog when I get it back, but I don't remember anything about a stone must be within 0.1 mm of the setting size, maybe I missed it? Have you seen such a statement?

Robin seems to want a level of precision that I'm not used to seeing.

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 Post subject: Re: Ah, the hazards of buying on Ebay
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:33 pm 
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What I want is for sellers to provide accurate measurements. If I can get them at home with a $30.00 caliper, it shouldn't be much of a stretch for a gem dealer. I don't know about the rest of the world, but the trade guidelines for gemstones in Canada require that weight and dimensions be expressed to two decimal places.


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 Post subject: Re: Ah, the hazards of buying on Ebay
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:40 pm 
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Bob,

I cut calibrated stones for the convenience of my "customers" (friends and family) who want to put them in pre-notched calibrated settings (such as Tripps.)

Did I say I have anything against Tripps? I use their products, which work much better if the size of the stones is reasonably close to the size of the setting.

If I were to cut stones worth thousands of dollars, I could afford to have custom-made settings, so wouldn't worry about calibration. I don't cut such stones.

I did not say stones have to be within 0.1 mm of the nominal size. Where did you get that? In my experience, +- 0.5 mm is fairly easy to accommodate. What I did say is that a seller should not misrepresent the size of his stones to make them appear to be standard sizes.

I won't speak for him, but I suspect Robin just wants the seller to be honest. Whether he wants to buy the product at its actual size is up to him.

Why are you defending a seller who misrepresents his product?


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 Post subject: Re: Ah, the hazards of buying on Ebay
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:52 pm 
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AlBalmer wrote:
Bob,

I won't speak for him, but I suspect Robin just wants the seller to be honest. Whether he wants to buy the product at its actual size is up to him.

Why are you defending a seller who misrepresents his product?



She :p

And you smacked the nail right on the head. I have worked with stones .5mm off the setting size. I'd rather not, but I can. As you said, I'd like to make an informed decision and I can't do it without accurate information. Plus, if a seller can't be bothered to either be aware of what they're actually offering, or be honest about it, they're probably not someone I want to continue doing business with.

All this being said, some are reading way too much into my original post, I was only making an observation about the risks we take purchasing online, not throwing a tantrum.


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 Post subject: Re: Ah, the hazards of buying on Ebay
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:06 am 
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I hate to do this, since I like the discussion on the size and how to accomidate the changes.

But I could not drop the question of who pays for return shipping.

someone else had pointed to the pages. Here iare the pages copied and pasted......
as well as the direct link

http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/item-not-received.html

From one of their pages, it is clear that you will get a refund on original shipping charges.......

here is is the section copied directly from eh ebay page:

Shop with confidence on eBay. We're here to help.

If you didn't receive your item or it doesn't match the listing description, your purchase price plus original shipping may be covered by the eBay Money Back Guarantee. If you have a problem, we're here to help.

this ONLY covers original shipping, but on the FAQ page

this ONLY covers original shipping, but on the FAQ page:

From the EBAY FAQ page on “ who pays for return shipping”
http://pages.ebay.com/buy/hasslefreereturns/

It depends on the reason for the return and the seller's return policy. In most cases, sellers designate that the buyer will pay for return shipping and any restocking fees if specified in their return policy. Some sellers offer free return shipping.

If the item is damaged or not as described, sellers must cover return shipping costs. =D>

When you're responsible for return shipping charges, we'll charge your PayPal account if the item is shipped with an eBay label. For more details, including approximate shipping costs, click here.

I think that this addresses the original intent of the post, risks of buying on ebay.

If the item is not as described you get all money back and the seller pays for return shipping.

RECOMMEND YOU USE THE EBAY PAGES TO MANAGE THE ENTIRE PROCESS. YOU STILL TRY TO WORK IT OUT WITH THE SELLER, BUT BY EBAY INVOLVED, THE SELLER WILL PAY FOR SHIPPING AND EBAY WILL ENSURE IT.

THERE ARE TIME LIMITS

IF YOU GO DIRECTLY TO THE SELLER, YOU MAY GET STUCK WITH RETURN SHIPPING.

sorry about the caps, it got stuck I did not intend to shout, but am to tired to edit it.


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 Post subject: Re: Ah, the hazards of buying on Ebay
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:19 am 
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No worries, I appreciate everyone who did bring up that point, I was not aware of it, and there are a few times when I got stuck with that bill and shouldn't have. Good to know for the future :) In this particular case though, I actually like most of the opals, and will probably keep them, I just disagree that the dimensions they offered were "close enough" and not a big deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Ah, the hazards of buying on Ebay
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:19 am 
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I have bought many stones from eBay and have always been happy. I buy mostly from Thailand and India, countries where it is risky to buy, more so in person. I very rarely buy from newcomers or from websites. Here are my criteria:
1) I only pick sellers with 99+ % positive feedback.
2) Before I buy, I always read the negative feedbacks. If the sellers answers the complaints in a logical way, then I consider him reputable. I also evaluate the side of the buyer. Some can be very unreasonable.
3) Whatever gems I had doubts about, once delivered, I showed them to a gemmologist or a very experienced (NB his main customers are jewellers) dealer here where I live. So far nobody has told me I got a fake.
4) Over the last 9 months, I had a number of disputes, ie the gemstone did not match the description. Twice the seller offered to refund me and pay for registered shipment. In one case we agreed to swap gemstone (same weight, but colour as described in what I had bought). In another case I got fully refunded (a few hundred dollars). In a third case, in which the girdle of the stone has a tiny chip missing, I got fully refunded and was allowed to keep the stone worth $10. In a number of other cases I was able to negotiate a rebate if the clarity was lower and the weight like 10+ % lighter. Only in one case I had to send to gemstone back at my cost, but it was only domestic shipment. The seller had sent me a few free stones previously. In another case, I complained about an alexandrite being a grown crystal by the pulling method, so the seller offered to cancel the transaction. I declined and paid for the stone because from the internet I realized that I made a good deal anyway.
5) With my main suppliers I have been able to establish a relationship of mutual trust, even overcoming language barriers.

If I take the prices on Gemval as guidance to the values of the stones I bought, I have done very well on eBay. I also regularly check these prices against those at gem shows for similar stones. I never chase gemstones in wild auctions. I decide my maximum price for a stone and stick to it. I have taught myself little, legal trading tricks on eBay to make sure I get top bargains.

I am grateful to eBay, PayPal and the sellers for the good system they are all part of it. I am happy that now PayPal has ruled that for an item with the wrong description the seller must pay for the return shipment.


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