New Mineral Named After GIA’s John Koivula
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 Post subject: A quick warning for anyone who uses eBay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:33 am 
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Hi,
Just thought I'd warn you about (yet another) way to be defrauded on good old fleabay:

I brought sweet looking pendant that was being sold by an american seller with excellent ratings etc. It was described as an unheated, untreated pad sapphire in a factory setting, and the "buy it now" price seemed fair enough. As soon as I got it and looked under magnification, the first thing I saw was heat haloes around inclusions. I write to the seller really nicely, saying that although I'm sure he brought the stone in good faith, it didn't look untreated to me and asked to return it at my expense.

He replied with a volley of technical sounding stuff about the inclusions in the stone that didn't make any sense to me, accused me of lying about my reasons for wanting to return the piece and refused the return. I thought I did the right thing by admitting I'm still new to Gem ID and so I sent it off to a lab to remove any doubt. The lab examined the stone still in the setting, so they didn't damage or affect it whatsoever, and, sure enough, it came back as showing evidence of high heat treatment with suspicion of light element diffusion (I didn't bother to pay extra for testing on that). Oh, and it wasn't judged as being a pad either, but of course that's subjective.

I sent the seller the lab report and asked through the eBay system for a return because the item was not as described. Here comes the fun part: the seller knew Ebay's policies better than I did, and went straight to them for arbitration. The case was judged against me because, hidden in their small print, they have a clause that says if you run ANY test on an item, it is considered as being no longer in its' original condition and therefore can't be returned.

So, even though I've proved I was defrauded and was sold an item that was not as described, eBay choose to allow this to happen in order to protect their sellers from even the possibility that their fake item might not be returned in its' original condition.

If this happens to you, DON'T GET THE STONE TESTED!! You'll end up like me, stuck having paid hundreds of dollars for a worthless piece of junk that belongs in the trash..............................OK, well, I know I was stupid to buy there in the first place, I was just dumb enough to believe all the hype about "if you are sold an item that's not as described, you'll get a refund". I won't make that mistake ever again....................................


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 Post subject: Re: A quick warning for anyone who uses eBay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:42 am 
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Very interesting, and good to know that clause. Thank you !

Having said that, maybe your stone is very pretty, although it has been heated as most sapphires are anyway. Heat treatment doesn't mean that a stone is worth nothing.

Of course if it has been Be-diffused furthermore, it's a different story.


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 Post subject: Re: A quick warning for anyone who uses eBay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:17 am 
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Hi Isi,

The gemologist who examined the piece said that he saw evidence of heating to a higher temperature than "regular" heat treatment, which is why he strongly suspects Be (or similar) diffusion. I didn't pay extra for the more advanced test to confirm it, because I thought I was already in the clear to return it since I had enough evidence that it wasn't as described. Silly me, but then on the other hand, the extra testing wouldn't have made a difference.

Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder: it looks far less pretty to me now that I know it isn't what I thought I was buying...............!!

Good wishes,


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 Post subject: Re: A quick warning for anyone who uses eBay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:50 am 
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Go through your credit card company.


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 Post subject: Re: A quick warning for anyone who uses eBay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:36 pm 
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Thank you: that's an excellent idea. It was paypal, so I've opened a case and we'll see what happens.


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 Post subject: Re: A quick warning for anyone who uses eBay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:05 pm 
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They will listen to your evidence and get your money back.
Make sure you forward all correspondence to them.
This seller is an opportunistic jerk. When this is settled make sure you leave reviews which reflect the incident.


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 Post subject: Re: A quick warning for anyone who uses eBay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:26 pm 
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Paypal belongs to Ebay, so i don't think it will help.

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 Post subject: Re: A quick warning for anyone who uses eBay
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:52 pm 
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I know it does.


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 Post subject: Re: A quick warning for anyone who uses eBay
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:07 am 
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Not anymore, since July of this year.

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 Post subject: Re: A quick warning for anyone who uses eBay
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:15 am 
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they separate it in 2 companies but shareholders are the same

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 Post subject: Re: A quick warning for anyone who uses eBay
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:47 am 
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What you are missing is that although PayPal and eBay are aligned they do not represent nor support fraudulent abusers.

Fraud hurts them both and does ultimate damage to their bottom lines.

Just file the claim and let us know, sparkleross.


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 Post subject: Re: A quick warning for anyone who uses eBay
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:59 am 
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This sound different that my experience with ebay. I am not saying that it did not happen, but that you may have had an inexperienced arbitrator.

I looked for the fine print that was talked about, and could not find it. So, I called EBAY customer service. After about 10 minutes talking to EBAY in person they said that:



1) EBAY says that there is no fine print that says that testing makes an item non original.

2) They said that they would look at all information and if the item is not as described then they would issue a refund. They would look at the report as part of that evidence.

3) There is an appeal process on addition to the original arbitration:

EBAY does have an appeal process, where the decision could be appealed, did you try that?

this is from:
http://ocsnext.ebay.com/ocs/sc

Here's what we found for "Appealing a decision on a case"

If you're unhappy with the result of a case that was not found in your favor, you can appeal the decision within 30 days of the case being closed.

New information should be included in the appeal. For example, sellers should be able to show that the buyer received the item and it matches the listing description, or a refund was made before the case was closed. Buyers need to be able to show they paid for an item and haven't received it, or the item doesn't match the seller's description.

To appeal a case, buyers can find their item on the Purchase history page and select Appeal from the More actions dropdown menu. If you're a seller, you'll find the case in your Seller Dashboard.

We will review your appeal and get back to you with a decision.


4 ) Ebay also says that if nothing else, as part of the money back gurentee program the item could be returned. (I got a little confused about this, the agent said that if you were not satisfied with the purchase, it could be covered. I did not see that in the policy)


I know that this sounds like I am challenging you, and I do not intend to do that.... very sorry.


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 Post subject: Re: A quick warning for anyone who uses eBay
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:41 am 
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Hi,

I did appeal against eBay's decision before I posted on the forum. Here is the response I got:

Thanks for responding to our message.



I understand that the tests that you have had with the item did not affected the item's condition however, it's still considered as altered as long as there are tests done with the actual item because since we are an online trading environment, we can't really tell what has happened with the actual condition of the product. Instead of forcing you to prove that your claim is valid, we are just going to base it on your statements in order to avoid such issues.



I regret to inform you that your appeal has been decided as the case was decided correctly and in line with eBay's guidelines and process.



Have a wonderful day and thanks for choosing eBay!


I don't have any right of further appeal from here. But, Barbara was correct: I filed a case with paypal and they immediately said that I could return the item for a refund and asked me to provide tracking information for the return package. I've done this, so we'll see what happens next. I am in Europe, so it will take a few days for the package to reach the USA. I'll let you know :)


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 Post subject: Re: A quick warning for anyone who uses eBay
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:19 am 
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Gee, I do a visual inspection test on everything I buy. Good thing I don't do business with eBay.


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 Post subject: Re: A quick warning for anyone who uses eBay
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:21 pm 
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Thanks for update.
and

THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP:

I am glad that PAYPAL is doing the right thing.


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