AGTA Announces Cancellation of 2021 AGTA GemFair™ Tucson
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 Post subject: Very nice 3.38 ct Tsavorite from a reliable vendor
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:03 pm 
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Auction HERE

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:24 pm 
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If that goes for $350 a carat I'm going to fall over.. what a bizarre world where people can sell items at that price..

maybe I should just cut man made material..

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:08 am 
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I'm confused... is the implication that it's synthetic?


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 Post subject: $350 per
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:16 am 
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No, I think he just saying that if IF or VVS tsavorite sells for that cheap that the american cutters just can't compete with those prices. Especially with how expensive Tsav rough is. Figure at 30% retention that stone was over 10 carats, 10 carat rough of IF or VVS Tsav would cost well over $100 a carat making it at best a break even proposition.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:43 am 
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tom schneider sells that quality rough for $400 a carat. so to cut a 3cart plus stone, you'd need ~ 12 carats * 400 = $4800 for the rough. That's assuming you can even find un cut tsavorite rough at any price..

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:57 am 
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So let's assume it's not fake. If it's real, and they're not just giving this stuff away out of a sense of charity... they're making money. If the cut stone is priced SO much less than rough that's available here... how can people get rough that cheap?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:45 pm 
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Karim, the bottom line is you can't get it that cheap. Tsavorite in Africa is very expensive. I spent over an hour on the phone with supplier for rough stones for the rough site trying to work on the prices. Larger tsavorite rough 5+ cts is selling in Africa for $200 to $400 per ct. So the question is how can these ebay stones be so cheap? Sometimes large companies will go in and buy hugh parcels of all mixed grade. They will take all the crap, and make beads, cab etc. and also end up with a few nice stones for faceting. By doing this they can get a better price, or it could be very old stock, or some lab created material.

You couldn't possibly buy a rough to cut that size stone for under $2000

I've told that in the tourest area's of Kenya and Tanzania tsavorite is being told to the tourest at higher prices than here in the USA. So getting good deals on rough is not going to happen at this time.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:18 pm 
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Let me clarify, I'm not asking how *I* could do it, I certainly couldn't. I mean, assuming that the eBay seller isn't taking a bath... how is he/she making money? Are these stolen goods? Trafficked war goods? Stock from the 12th Century?


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 Post subject: how much?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:25 pm 
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Hello all;

If you have been following this thread this item went for $3049! that's about $900 per. good tsavorite garnet in the rough does average 300 to 600 per caret. 300 per caret rough would probably break even on this stone. Obviously, something has to give. Buying in parcels as high on the food chain is necessary. As cutters we need to emphasize the value of our efforts. You'll notice there is only 1 pic on this stone. maybe it's because the auction is closed but I'll bet if you could see some good shots of the cut you would find the meet points on this stone aren't as good as they could be. I seen alot of native cuts and few have decent meet points over the entire stone. On the other hand I am always suspicious of IF quality stones in garnet. I bought a parcel of blue green tourmaline rough from tom schneider at last years tucson show. I paid $600 for 200 carets. All of the rough was worth $5 to $20 per caret. Some will qualify as indicolite and 2 pcs cut nice blues. Buying in parcels and using your quality cuts to push the price is the only way to come out ahead if you are cutting for profit. I would like to make money cutting so i can continue to aquire more rough to cut. Problem is I can't quit buying rough (it would take me the rest of my life to cut it all) This gemstone stuff is such a G.D. bad habit (as you all know) that I can hardly bear to part with some of the stuff I cut. What a delemma
BTW, Jason if you're reading this the 1.09 tsavorite I purchased from you is a beautiful example of tsavorite. Great color, few inclusions and a decent cut.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:52 pm 
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$900 per ct is still a good price for the stone. What I don't understand is how these guys risk putting the stone up with a starting bid of only $.99

With my luck someone would buy it for only $.99

When I was talking about large parcels, I wasn't referring to 1000 cts. I was referring to reallllly large parcels, like the entire mine production for a year.
For the rough site, I generally get parcels of several hundred grams for each stone in a given size.

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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 6:00 pm 
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No sure how reliable this vendor is myself

21cts(100+stones) of small "dubiously" heated sapphires for over $800


click here

:shock:


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 6:09 pm 
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I think it is pretty typical of some vendors to leave out a key word, "Diffused", when they mention heat treatment.

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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 7:04 pm 
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allen wrote:
I think it is pretty typical of some vendors to leave out a key word, "Diffused", when they mention heat treatment.


Tell me about it, there are so many BE sapphires on ebay its become a joke, not to mention all the other treated stones flooding ebay. If vendors actually state it is a BE sapphire with a fair price(super cheap) its fine but its not the case most of the time. As soon as I see one I instantly refuse to buy anything unless for study purposes, and then no more than a couple of $s. How can they ask $800 for those "heated" pads???? :roll:

Red sapphire anyone? :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:51 am 
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One question that has not been asked is, how old is the rough the stone is cut from? That may have a factor on price.

As said before, many of these vendors buy very large parcels, and depending on their relationship with their suppliers, who knows what their price points really are? Probably better than most.

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:58 am 
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Hi gemparade:

Welcome to reality :) if its got good clarity ect the price is high if you look around nobody is giving 1 ct+ treated sapphires away any more ... and more importantly they are being purchased *shrug*

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