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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:42 am 
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Those Photoshopped samples I promised:

This is the original stone, sorry for poor image:
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Change the lighting setup after the shot you ask?
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Same stone in whatever color you want it ;)
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How about the new chalcedonic based Spinel, lol:
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Extreme Makeover, lol:
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Chopped, lowered, repainted, etc.:
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As you can see, just about anything can be done using Adobe to alter an image. These were all just basics done by yours truly. The colored stones took me a total of 3-5mins to create all of them and that included cropping the original image as well. While Photoshop is an awesome tool for working with your images to make them more realistically portray your subject, they can also be used by unscrupulous vendors to do whatever they want to do to a stone!

One last one, I didn't get the rays thin enough though, so this isn't quite realistic looking, but I didn't feel like doing it all over again, lol. But how about the new Star Pink Opal from Peru!? lol
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:02 am 
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JB wrote:
Wonder why my Big Mac or Whopper never looks like the picture?

Some things in life need a little help. Like my Drivers License photo. :P


:smt046



swishman-

:lol: 8) that was an eye-opener being able to see how you can change the color of the stone, especially the "new chalcedonic-based spinel." lol, so, this is how some bad sellers manipulate the color of their stones. scary.
wow, i love that "new" discovery of pink star opal from peru, lol!!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:27 am 
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Jeffrey Hunt wrote:
I think it important to note that technology can simply get in the way of a good photograph.

(Hey Mitch, sorry about hi-jacking your thread.)

Jeff


This is exactly what I wanted to bring up. Thanks Swishman for the plain demonstration. :smt042

I have been wondering about these pictures of color change gemstones for a long time. This kind of pictures even showed up in the “stones of the day” thread in the collector’s corner section (for example on page 188). People admired them. :smt017 I just want people to beware.

I am not against legitimate uses of Photoshop or any color manipulation. I simply don’t like a lie. I think, when one uses the color manipulation, he/she must heed if it crossed the line. :D

Mitch

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:17 pm 
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Beyond the wonders of photography and e-bay, Generally, if it comes to gemstones, I look at the vendors opening description.

If I can't get beyond that, I have little interest in the item, including photos, other than comic relief.

The opening description will tell you a lot about the vendor and who his target audience is. It may even tell you if they have any idea as to what they are selling or just yanking the proverbial consumer chain.

Awkward, awesome and other misplaced and misused juicy adjectives to describe gemstone properties tell me nothing other than the seller can't relate any pertinent gemological information and that he hopes that a potential customer can't distinguish, "shit from shinola."

It's the really good ones that know the difference you have to look out for. Fortunately, they are fewer in number.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:39 pm 
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mhuynh wrote:
Jeffrey Hunt wrote:
I think it important to note that technology can simply get in the way of a good photograph.

(Hey Mitch, sorry about hi-jacking your thread.)

Jeff


This is exactly what I wanted to bring up. Thanks Swishman for the plain demonstration. :smt042

I have been wondering about these pictures of color change gemstones for a long time. This kind of pictures even showed up in the “stones of the day” thread in the collector’s corner section (for example on page 188). People admired them. :smt017 I just want people to beware.

I am not against legitimate uses of Photoshop or any color manipulation. I simply don’t like a lie. I think, when one uses the color manipulation, he/she must heed if it crossed the line. :D

Mitch



The "Stone of the Day" color change sapphire on page 188 happens to be one I bought. It also happens to be exactly as described - which I knew it would be because of who was selling it. And I also knew that if it wasn't Michael would be perfectly happy to refund every cent I spent for it. So if the stone in real life looks EXACTLY the same as the photos they posted is it a lie? Not in my mind.

And yes, I do admire it. It rocks.

While people do have to be careful I think some are too quick to leap on the "OH MY GOD EVERYONE IS SELLING FAKES/DIFFUSED GEMS!!" bandwagon.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:48 pm 
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It has little to do with diffusion and more to do with confusion.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:51 pm 
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The "Stone of the Day" color change sapphire on page 188 happens to be one I bought. It also happens to be exactly as described. So if the stone in real life looks EXACTLY the same as the photos they posted is it a lie? Not in my mind.


That was the point I was making as well Ms. Tame. :D


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:53 pm 
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JB wrote:
Beyond the wonders of photography and e-bay, Generally, if it comes to gemstones, I look at the vendors opening description.

If I can't get beyond that, I have little interest in the item, including photos, other than comic relief.....

Awkward, awesome and other misplaced and misused juicy adjectives to describe gemstone properties tell me nothing other than the seller can't relate any pertinent gemological information and that he hopes that a potential customer can't distinguish, "shit from shinola."


:lol: jb, it never fails, reading some of your posts have about caused me to fall out of the computer chair from laughing.

anitame-i agree with you--omg, everyone's selling fake/diffused gems! run! run 4 your life!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:07 pm 
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Hi, anitame,

I was not referring to your post. I do not understand why you are so upset. Did you read this thread from the beginning?

Scroll further down on page 188. It is the cc garnet posted by Elvis Prasiolite on June 6. Those three pictures appear the same. What I brought up here is nothing to do with “OH MY GOD EVERYONE IS SELLING FAKES/DIFFUSED GEMS!!" I am talking about color manipulation on the same pictures of color change gemstones.

Take a good look at Swishman’s post with amazing pictures on this page.

Mitch

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Mitch

I am a slave to cutting a stone completely free of chips and very much enjoying it.


Last edited by mhuynh on Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:24 pm 
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Some people use Photoshop to deceive. Sometimes they just use it because for whatever reason they can't get what their eye sees to show up in a picture. Color manipulation isn't always ONLY because they're trying to hide something. It can be in some cases, and in some cases what they are manipulating is to show what they can't get to show without it.

What it comes down to is knowing and trusting who you buy from, and making sure there is a good return policy if the stone isn't what you hoped it would be.

Sorry if I came off as arsey. But not everything is done for the purpose of deceiving.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:53 pm 
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Not one person said photoshop is used only to deceive, that would be absurd. Maybe some should read what others post at not be so quick to jump. :( All that was stated and shown is how easy it is to do so and that it can be and is used as a tool of deception as well as a tool for correction. If one takes the time to learn about it you will, in time and practice, easily spot those deceptive images as well as just those that are "innocently" enhanced just to look like a better photograph.

Last I checked information and examples were a valuable tool, but if you would rather wear blinders and not be aware of the possibilities that can and ARE used daily on auction sites, then that is your personal choice, but maybe others, and quite obviously so judging from comments, would rather be informed and have the entire picture. So, why shouldn't they have their info and be able to learn!?

If you had bothered to read the thread in its entirety, no one said anything about everyone selling diffused or treated or fake gemstones, that would, again, just be absurd. But to be so naïve to not face the facts and reality that there are more scammers on Fleabay then legitimate sellers, is sad and bad practice, just as it would be for ANYONE to assume just the opposite and think that all sellers on there are bad.

Have you done ANY research at all on auction website sellers!? I would bet not, but, I have and have done so for the last 8yrs quite in depth as well. I have went so far as to spend quite a bit of $$$$ in the process "shopping" multiple times to rule out they just missed the said treatment(s) or it was a one time "screw up". I went above and beyond proper investigative techniques to give the benefit of the doubt and rule out any reasonable doubt and even gave them the opportunities to face the music after the proper tests were done, and most fessed up or acted in a way that showed they were guilty.

Out of random sampling of sellers on Fleabay, over 70% of those tested/sampled were using deceptive practices and I don't mean minute ones either. And this has been an ongoing venture for over 8yrs of research and investigations. But in that process I also found quite a few legitimate sellers, Jason, Dave, Lee, Luke, George, Linith, Raj, Gia, Gina, and a few others from all around the globe that were legit and selling great products as described at reasonable prices. But the legit sellers were in every instance the small minority in comparison to the scammer/deceptive sellers, sadly. One can hop on the Fleabay community board at any given time and read the horror stories buyers go through as well as further evidence.

But, one should fully read exactly what people have written and not place "words" and meanings into their posts that were not there or explicitly stated in the first place before they go getting "huffy" and jumping them. If there is a doubt as to the meaning of their post, it is proper form to ask first, not just assume and pounce! A smart guy once told me something very similar since on the internet one can NOT see body language nor can the tone of a person's voice be heard, so sometimes mistakes can be made when reading someone's post and it can easily be taken out of context. It is called Netetiquette.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:23 am 
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Wait, so some ebay sellers are lying? What a shocker. [/sarcasm]

I've got no blinders on. And I myself said Photoshop can be used to deceive, just not in every case.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:04 am 
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easy people... if I read all this correctly I see agreement all over the show.

just mere quarrelling about the expressions used.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:10 am 
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I agree, and did apologize to Mitch if I came on too strongly.


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 Post subject: Perfection with color in photography can be difficult
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:33 am 
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Just a few words from what I have seen with tourmaline.

It can be difficult to see color change in the rough. I looked very hard for more low grade rough "Laurellite" (cuprian Elbaite that has a reverse Alexandrite color change) that I wanted to run experiments with. My supplier was hard pressed to see the change and find me anything. I just finished a smaller emerald cut that is half color changer and half that does not change. It is a good change, but I didn't see it until I finished the stone.

I agree that if everything is perfect with the lighting set up and the camera is properly calibrated, the color of the stones should not need to be adjusted. I also think that it is easier to have two identical digital pictures with different colors by using photoshop etc. than actually putting the work into making a perfect picture. I personally think that photoshop can make pictures that more truly represent the color of a stone, on a monitor or page, than most photographers can do.

Finally I would like to take you back to the pre-digital age and tell you about an attempt I made to get a picture of my purple cuprian tourmaline. I sent the 16 carat round to a world famous photographer who would only guarantee a good color rendition under his normal lighting conditions. (I knew this because I had asked him about taking pictures of the Laurellite. I decided not to send the Laurellites because of the lack of a guarantee with color under both white lights.) Now cuprian tourmaline had not yet been "found" in Mozambique and the photographer assumed that the stone was an amethyst. I am sure that I told him it was a purple tourmaline, but he has taken pictures of gems and minerals for many years and made his own determination. I received an email after the pictures were taken. It said that I had a very difficult "amethyst" to take a picture of. He didn't have any more time to work on it since he was going overseas to a gem and mineral show, so he would reduce his charge for the pictures. I was very curious about my difficult "amethyst" and eagerly awaited the pictures that were on slides. Now the round has twelve split horizontal mains, a deep crown and some eye visible blue zoning, but it is completely purple with a touch of blue face up (under day light). The pictures came back with about half the pavilion facets a pure sapphire blue and half the facets pure purple. I tried having people take digital pictures of this strange "amethyst". The first round of digital pictures showed the same duel colors until the camera was adjusted to specifically take pictures of the gem. A quick look through another digital camera also show the same two colors so there is some consistency here.

I have asked experts why there were color problems and this is their explanation. The mind's/eye's interaction with light in the blue/purple area of the spectrum is very complex. Different amounts of a tint/dye in photography or a printer can lead to a different color when it should only be a darker rendition of the same color. This has been known for years in the film and printing business. The most likely explanation for the digital problems have to do with electronic noise in the cameras and the unstable area of the spectrum that we are taking a pictures of.

Perfection with color in photography can be difficult and advances in digital processing can make the world of color in photography so much easier.

Bruce


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