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 Post subject: Need help with Ruby gemstone identification!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:32 pm 
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Hi All,
I am in need of some help with identifying an old Ruby. The stone is set in silver and at least 100 years old. I have had it tested and all test confirm Ruby and it has a nice red glow under long and short wave UV. I am having difficulty finding an expert in colored gemstones in my area, but have been told that it is probably a flame fusion stone.
Gemology is a new hobby and love for me and I have been studying this Ruby for months now and could really use some input. I believe that I am looking at natural inclusions inside the stone under microscope but with my limited knowledge and cheap equipment I am only confusing myself more. I have snapped some photos with a handheld digital microscope and would appreciate any input, comments or help any of You can give.


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IMG_20171006_131736_472.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Need help with Ruby gemstone identification!!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:56 pm 
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Thought I should add a couple more photos. Hope this helps! I think I am figuring this out after discovering Lotus Gemology. These inclusions seem to match photos of natural inclusions and I think I am seeing signs of heat treatment but just to the surface of stone. My research tells Me none of this should be present in a synthetic stone as old as this one. If anyone knows how I would get this identified and get the proper paperwork, I would appreciate any advice! I live in NE and don't think there is a lab near me.


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IMG_20171009_093911_360.jpg
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IMG_20171006_125905_467.jpg
IMG_20171006_125905_467.jpg [ 42.64 KiB | Viewed 414 times ]
IMG_20171009_093634_325.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Need help with Ruby gemstone identification!!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:52 pm 
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None of these seems to be of much help for the stone identification.
But I wouldn't trust much a ruby set in silver.
100 years old is exactly the right age for a synthetic stone...
Could you show pictures of the whole item, with less magnification ?


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 Post subject: Re: Need help with Ruby gemstone identification!!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:50 pm 
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Thanks for Your response. Here is a photo of the ring without magnification. The stone is big and beautiful and should be a synthetic stone. That being said it is full of inclusions that look like natural crystals and needles, so I am a little confused about the whole thing. Thanks again for Your help.


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Ring resized.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Need help with Ruby gemstone identification!!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:35 pm 
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Looks like a flame fusion synthetic to me.
None of the inclusions appear natural.
Focus on the growth lines. I would bet dollars to donuts they are curved.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help with Ruby gemstone identification!!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:17 am 
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I would bet the same.
The type of cutting does nothing to help the impression of a natural stone.
Nor the color, size, and so on.
Don't focus on the small things you would like to hear whisper towards your hopes.
Focus on the main things which shout reality.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help with Ruby gemstone identification!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:20 pm 
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Thank You Barbara and Isi for the input. I have stared at the growth lines in this stone so much that my eyes have gone crossed and I am seeing growth lines in my sleep. I can't seem to make them curved no matter how hard I try. I have only examined one other flame fusion stone and the surface was very clean with no inclusions, the curvature jumped right out at me and gas bubbles were present. This stone has a completly different look and the surface is full of "muck". Here are a some pics of lines and some muck on the surface. Are these things normal in old flame fusion stones? I just want to get this right so I have a better understanding when I run across a stone like this in the future. I have no hope, only confusion!!


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File comment: these lines are present throughout the stone
growth lines cs resized.jpg
growth lines cs resized.jpg [ 31.65 KiB | Viewed 325 times ]
File comment: same muck at different angle
more muck2 dif. lite-1.jpg
more muck2 dif. lite-1.jpg [ 43.58 KiB | Viewed 325 times ]
File comment: Here is some of the "muck"
more muck2.jpg
more muck2.jpg [ 61.96 KiB | Viewed 325 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Need help with Ruby gemstone identification!!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:41 pm 
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I have no idea what your photos represent, perhaps polishing lines on the surface.
Where are you located?
Let's see if we can hook you up with someone who can identify that stone.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help with Ruby gemstone identification!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:06 pm 
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Hi Barbara, I live in Lincoln, Nebraska and would really appreciate some help with this. There are some bad polish lines but most of this stuff is under the surface once I get through the lines. I am sending a couple more photos just because I like sharing them and wonder if You've ever seen any of these things. Thanks so much for Your help!!


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File comment: There are several of these in the stone.
growth lines4.JPG
growth lines4.JPG [ 83.9 KiB | Viewed 306 times ]
File comment: I have a hard time getting a good pic of these. They are throughout the stone.
IMG_20171009_144359_023.jpg
IMG_20171009_144359_023.jpg [ 7.48 KiB | Viewed 306 times ]
File comment: Have You ever seen one of these?
IMG_20171013_112458_640.jpg
IMG_20171013_112458_640.jpg [ 43.98 KiB | Viewed 306 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Need help with Ruby gemstone identification!!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:19 pm 
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It happens more than often that old flame fusion stones are poorly polished.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help with Ruby gemstone identification!!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:25 pm 
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Hello Again Gem Lovers, I have been busy educating myself, learning more about microphotography, and have recruited some friends in the scientific world to help me with this stone. I have also found some other stones to examine. I have an old flame fusion ruby that is set in platinum, an old sapphire that I believe is a natural stone and a couple of emeralds. OMG! There is so much I still need to learn but am determined!!
I do apologize for all the confusing photos I have shared. I have some pics here that I think should help identify this ruby. The big difference I find in the flame fusion vs. natural corundum (other than the obvious curvature in the flame fusion stone) is the presence of cross secting rutile needles and clouds. I have attemted to focus on these in the photos and am wondering if these are ever found in synthetic stones. Any input is greatly appreciated.


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last rutile needles2.jpg
last rutile needles2.jpg [ 71.8 KiB | Viewed 222 times ]
last cloud.jpg
last cloud.jpg [ 30.19 KiB | Viewed 222 times ]
last rutile needles.jpg
last rutile needles.jpg [ 70.09 KiB | Viewed 222 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Need help with Ruby gemstone identification!!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:08 pm 
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The pics above aren't rutile needles in corundum. The lines intersect at 90º.

Notice how the intersection or rutile needles pictured below are NOT 90º but 60º-120º

Image

Your shots look like surficial characteristics....poor polish.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help with Ruby gemstone identification!!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:26 pm 
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Yeah, this must be on the surface. Note the curved scratches cutting through the grid in places and how uneven the direction and spacing are. Boehmite needles do meet at 90 degree angles but that isn't what this is.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help with Ruby gemstone identification!!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:40 pm 
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Hi All, Thanks for the input on my photos. I have been working on getting better with my digital camera, but in the meantime I have located a qualified gemologist to help with identifying this stone. I will have to drive 8 hours one way to see Him but think it's probably worth the trip. I have tried to make this stone a simple old flame fusion ruby, but it just isn't even close to the other flame fusions I have examined. I have some more photos here with less magnification and better clarity and would welcome any input on them and any suggestions on how to get better photos. Thanks again for the input!!


Attachments:
File comment: I got on top of a cloud here and got some of the insides to light up.
silk cloud again-1.jpg
silk cloud again-1.jpg [ 38.12 KiB | Viewed 126 times ]
File comment: These crystals are throughout the stone. note the clouded area in upper left. These clouded areas appear to be full of 1 & 2 phase transparent crystals.
try this 2 now.jpg
try this 2 now.jpg [ 33.19 KiB | Viewed 126 times ]
File comment: Any idea what happened here?
surface inclusions2 now.jpg
surface inclusions2 now.jpg [ 33.97 KiB | Viewed 126 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Need help with Ruby gemstone identification!!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:50 pm 
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Good luck, and I hope you'll update us with what they say.


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