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 Post subject: Yellow Sapphire - Heat, Unheated, or BE Treated?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:36 am 
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Hi,

I recently acquired yellow sapphires and a couple have black carbon -colored inclusions. Eye clean and photo is under 10x magnification.

Any ideas as I have not seen this inclusion before in sapphires.

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Yellow Sapphire - Heat, Unheated, or BE Treated?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:08 am 
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Hi Seaglow!

Mmh - nobody can tell you from a picture whether this stone is unheated, heated or Be-treated.

Nobody can tell you from a picture that this is a sapphire...

A stone like this is not Eyeclean - you see that black inclusion easy with the naked eye ( not me - I need glasses :( )

Do you have some intruments - a refractometer?

If not you need a lab to identify this stone and def. a lab for the kind of treatment.

Maybe a stupid question - these are inclusions and not "dirt" in a natural on the outside?

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Last edited by Marlow on Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Yellow Sapphire - Heat, Unheated, or BE Treated?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:39 pm 
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Sorry, I accidentally deleted a post from Seaglow.
Apologies.
Please post it again.


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 Post subject: Re: Yellow Sapphire - Heat, Unheated, or BE Treated?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:41 pm 
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No worries. :)

Thanks for the reply, Marlow.

Yes, I have a refractometer and I have done the hardness test on the stone.

It's definitely not dirt but the bigger inclusion is close to the crown. It's also eye clean, you cannot see the inclusion 8-10 inches away face up....unless you have another definition of eye clean? These inclusions can only be seen at least with a loupe.

Note this was sold to me as traditional heat, except there are no typical burst inclusions and modified fingerprint....makes me think the stone is untreated except when I was trying to browse in the internet lab galleries from inclusion photos, I saw some black spots on BE treated blue sapphires as the most similar inclusion....but these inclusions are black, and the stone has no blue spots. The inclusions look like the color of carbon and yes, and as you said like dirt on the stone, too. :)

I definitely have access to a lab and was just wondering if anyone here has seen such inclusions in sapphire. The stone is from Thailand's Chanthaburi mine. Unfortunately, it doesn't make it easy that lots in Thailand can be sold mixed....I've once bought Mogok rubies as a lot in a temporary necklace setting....ended up sending it at the lab with a result of mostly heated stones, partly with untreated pieces, and partly with glass-filled!

Here's the photo of the stone face up.


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 Post subject: Re: Yellow Sapphire - Heat, Unheated, or BE Treated?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:26 am 
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So you were able to identify this stone as a Sapphire - natural or synthetic.

I cannot tell from the pic whether BE treated or heated or natural.

So I think you need a lab.

Eyeclean in my definition mean that I can't see any inclusion with the naked eye - as an old man with 51 it means glasses with + 2-2,5. If I buy gems I use + 3,5 glasses.

The larger black inclusion in the crown I am sure you see with naked eye.

Btw. - I see brighter and darker areas in the black inclusions in the first pic....

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 Post subject: Re: Yellow Sapphire - Heat, Unheated, or BE Treated?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:32 am 
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Marlow even if you are 51 you might have better eyesight that me. :shock: the stone is a brilliant one so the placement of the inclusion might be masked by the brialliance.

I will send it to the lab for a brief and I'll ask about the type of inclusions. I'll post the result once I get it. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Yellow Sapphire - Heat, Unheated, or BE Treated?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:21 am 
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yes it could be Be-Treated! those surface inclusion as mentioned can be remnant of surface feature after polishing of distorted surface area due to partial melting with subsequent re-deposition and re- crystallization on Be-treated Yellow Sapphire for prolong periods of time.
more pictures with magnification would be helpful.

where are you located Seaglow? if you are in Thailand i con refer to some good labs like Lotus Gemology Bangkok http://www.lotusgemology.com


P.S. with refractometer you wont be able to identify the treatment, unless you have LA-ICP-MS (Laser Ablation Inductively Coupled Plasma Mass Spectrometry) ;) wink

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 Post subject: Re: Yellow Sapphire - Heat, Unheated, or BE Treated?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 4:06 pm 
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Are you Seaglow on PS too?

If yes you have an awesome collection! I love esp. the A jade!! Wonderful!! Please post some pics here too!

And I hope your Sapphire is not Be treated.

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 Post subject: Re: Yellow Sapphire - Heat, Unheated, or BE Treated?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:47 pm 
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PS? Play Station? Photo Shop? I live a sheltered life. :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Yellow Sapphire - Heat, Unheated, or BE Treated?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:17 pm 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
PS? Play Station? Photo Shop? I live a sheltered life. :oops:

Oh i think he means https://www.pricescope.com

P.S. i thought you are kind of advantageous person

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 Post subject: Re: Yellow Sapphire - Heat, Unheated, or BE Treated?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:42 pm 
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:oops: Haven't signed on to PriceScope in years.
Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Yellow Sapphire - Heat, Unheated, or BE Treated?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:41 am 
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Thank you for the replies!

roshanravan,
Yes, it does have a chance of being BE-treated, for sure...and I don't have an LA-ICP-MS! The inclusion is not on the surface though but close to the surface. The other smaller black inclusions are in the middle of the stone.

One of my jewelers only use Lotus lab and I do have one of their small table books. :) I shuttle to and from Europe and Thailand, but I don't live in Bangkok, I stay up north in Chiang Mai. Unfortunately, if I want a quick lab result, there is only one local lab in the area which is the Chiang Mai Gem Testing Laboratory. A full report is almost the same price as the Lotus report (and trust me, the Lotus Report has a way better presentation), a stone identification whether natural or synthetic without comments costs USD10, and to put the comments on (say, Sapphire - indication of heating) would cost USD25.

I will go for the USD25 mini brief and ask the gemologist about the inclusion.The shops around do acknowledge the results of this lab. So in case the stones are not as claimed, the shops let me change the stones to one with the same cost or higher price. They are quite conservative and careful though in making calls for stones with overlapping characteristics, as I've once asked for a result for a stone....I was expecting it to state at least Demantoid, but the lab returned it as green garnet -because they said the characteristics was between or overlapping between grossular and andradite so they'll just call it green garnet. (???) :shock:

marlow,
Thanks. yes, same seaglow at PS. :) Jade, I have given up hunting for them. I just get it straight from a reputable factory in Chiang Mai. The Jade in the market, unless there is a report from a reputable lab or it is from from reputable sellers specializing in Jade, is almost 100% B and C Jade for the nice icy and imperials ones. The sound test doesn't work and the imperials are truly rare only occurring mostly in thin veins. So to get a thick imperial cab is difficult And would cost sky high prices....much more a bangle!

Anyway, back to the stone, here are more photos before I go to the lab. I found a similar inclusion though in one of my study stones, a light blue sapphire cab though there were no extra black dots in the cab. I'm posting photos of the yellow stone and my blue study stone.


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 Post subject: Re: Yellow Sapphire - Heat, Unheated, or BE Treated?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:44 am 
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More photos...


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 Post subject: Re: Yellow Sapphire - Heat, Unheated, or BE Treated?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:45 am 
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I wouldn't have thought at first sight that this light yellow could be the typical color resulting of Be treatment.
I would rather think of classical heat only.
But then, it's only a feeling, a lab analysis would be safer.


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 Post subject: Re: Yellow Sapphire - Heat, Unheated, or BE Treated?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:45 am 
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light yellow? it does not appear to be light in the picture

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