January 24 Through February 4—TUCSON, ARIZONA: Annual show
Welcome to the GemologyOnline.com Forum
A non-profit Forum for the exchange of gemological ideas
It is currently Mon Mar 18, 2024 11:56 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Overwhelmed with info, please help identify!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:27 pm 
Offline
Gold Member

Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 2:18 am
Posts: 1542
glhays wrote:
I'm guessing here that based on the greasy and other descriptive terms on the images someone probably said jade. The flat slab appearance of it is kind of suspicious, maybe an 1850's gold miner returning from the California gold rush dropped a piece of slabbed jade out of their saddle bag or wagon while traveling through Texas. Been laying there for over hundred years of sand running over it.
But the same answer comes to mind, its not worth the costs to take it and get properly identified.
I would like to hear as well.


If this could be true, it also most likely be dropped out of a stage coach box robbed by Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid as they made their escape to South America.

Pure fantasy.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Overwhelmed with info, please help identify!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:29 am 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:39 pm
Posts: 14
No apologies necessary! I’m fine if it’s glass or whatever. I just want to understand the subject better. I think there’s been a misunderstanding that I thought this was a rare gem or valuable stone. I am realistic and never thought that for one minute. I just wanted help identifying what it is because I’d like to be more educated on the things I collect. I’m sure many people would like to believe they found a million dollar gem in a rock pile and you grow exhausted of explaining that’s not what they have but I just wanted info and a more concrete answer to help me research and understand my findings. Thank you so much 1bwana1 for the information you have taken the time to share. It has truly helped me in understanding how you got to the why. Very helpful and informative! Thank you again for your time, I truly appreciate it!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Overwhelmed with info, please help identify!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:53 am 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:58 pm
Posts: 1424
Location: San Marcos, CA
1bwana1 wrote:
glhays wrote:
I'm guessing here that based on the greasy and other descriptive terms on the images someone probably said jade. The flat slab appearance of it is kind of suspicious, maybe an 1850's gold miner returning from the California gold rush dropped a piece of slabbed jade out of their saddle bag or wagon while traveling through Texas. Been laying there for over hundred years of sand running over it.
But the same answer comes to mind, its not worth the costs to take it and get properly identified.
I would like to hear as well.


If this could be true, it also most likely be dropped out of a stage coach box robbed by Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid as they made their escape to South America.

Pure fantasy.

#-o I can see that too. Do I believe it is possible no.. Yes just a fantasy.

_________________
The Gem Garden
San Marcos, CA


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Overwhelmed with info, please help identify!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:57 am 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:39 pm
Posts: 14
glhays seems glass is the likelihood but I’ll keep you posted if any new revelations. I do love your sense of wonder and optimism. Thanks for your uplifting response :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Overwhelmed with info, please help identify!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:58 am 
Offline
Gemology Online Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 2:51 am
Posts: 755
Location: South Africa
It may help to suggested to Rhobint how to try to distinguish glass (natural or synthetic) from something like jade. For what it is worth, the photographs of the piece do not say 'glass' to me. Rhobint, please go to this thread to see some images of glass https://www.gemologyonline.com/Forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=21047&hilit=fake+gem+rough. The determining characteristics are internal swirl marks, due to slight variations in the composition and hence refractive index, and round bubbles, often also in swirls but sometimes isolated. I don't see these in your photograph taken in transmitted light. Please look at your specimen with a 10x magnifying glass, using transmitted light, to see if it contains round bubbles. If not, then it may not be glass and it would be worth trying to get it identified physically by a gemologist or someone in a geology department. Then please come back and tell us what it is. This is a learning exercise and you should not be put off.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Overwhelmed with info, please help identify!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:32 am 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:58 pm
Posts: 1424
Location: San Marcos, CA
I still find it suspecious. The shape has a very flat edge and the one side looks domed and resembles the shape of a chisel like object. I know the teachings of GIA are non destructive testing but a small sample and an SG reading would help. But once again just looking at images. Looks like duck, walks like duck, barks like a dog, but runs like a rabbit. What can it be I wonder.

_________________
The Gem Garden
San Marcos, CA


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Overwhelmed with info, please help identify!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:09 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 21600
Location: San Francisco
Rhobint, it you want to break off a bit and send it to me, I will ID it for you, no charge.
Let me know.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Overwhelmed with info, please help identify!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:58 pm 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:39 pm
Posts: 14
Duncan Miller wrote:
It may help to suggested to Rhobint how to try to distinguish glass (natural or synthetic) from something like jade. For what it is worth, the photographs of the piece do not say 'glass' to me. Rhobint, please go to this thread to see some images of glass https://www.gemologyonline.com/Forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=21047&hilit=fake+gem+rough. The determining characteristics are internal swirl marks, due to slight variations in the composition and hence refractive index, and round bubbles, often also in swirls but sometimes isolated. I don't see these in your photograph taken in transmitted light. Please look at your specimen with a 10x magnifying glass, using transmitted light, to see if it contains round bubbles. If not, then it may not be glass and it would be worth trying to get it identified physically by a gemologist or someone in a geology department. Then please come back and tell us what it is. This is a learning exercise and you should not be put off.



Thank you Duncan. I will look at it with a magnifying glass today. It doesn’t feel or look like glass to me but I am also not experienced in identifying it after it’s been in a river for who knows how long. I did weigh it with a food scale I have. Would providing that change anything? I haven’t had a chance to look at the link you provided yet. I will do that shortly. Thank you very much.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Overwhelmed with info, please help identify!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:02 pm 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:39 pm
Posts: 14
glhays wrote:
I still find it suspecious. The shape has a very flat edge and the one side looks domed and resembles the shape of a chisel like object. I know the teachings of GIA are non destructive testing but a small sample and an SG reading would help. But once again just looking at images. Looks like duck, walks like duck, barks like a dog, but runs like a rabbit. What can it be I wonder.


I agree, I have even told my husband that it may have broken like that but seems like it has been cut to me. We finally got a sunny day so I was able to get better photos I will add here.
Thank you for your input.


Attachments:
File comment: Greasy (?) side. I’m not sure if that’s the correct luster but from what I’ve read it seemed to be the best
E7455A4F-B766-40CA-9F32-1829466D02A2.jpeg
E7455A4F-B766-40CA-9F32-1829466D02A2.jpeg [ 2.29 MiB | Viewed 1016 times ]
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Overwhelmed with info, please help identify!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:09 pm 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:39 pm
Posts: 14
glhays wrote:
I still find it suspecious. The shape has a very flat edge and the one side looks domed and resembles the shape of a chisel like object. I know the teachings of GIA are non destructive testing but a small sample and an SG reading would help. But once again just looking at images. Looks like duck, walks like duck, barks like a dog, but runs like a rabbit. What can it be I wonder.


I agree, I have even told my husband that it may have broken like that but seems like it has been cut to me. We finally got a sunny day so I was able to get better photos I will add here.
Thank you for your input.


Attachments:
File comment: Flat (cut?) side. The day I brought this home I read about how to make rocks shiny and I thought it would be pretty if I could make it like the glassy side so I polished this side with wet/ dry sandpaper up to 2500 grit. It didn’t change the appearance much other than the fine lines you see were slightly more prominent and it wasn’t as smooth but still very smooth. It was after I did this that I really thought about identifying
B92B6A5B-FA0E-4FA3-BF86-35E2A5D26E60.jpeg
B92B6A5B-FA0E-4FA3-BF86-35E2A5D26E60.jpeg [ 2.57 MiB | Viewed 1016 times ]
File comment: Glassy side
2316EB73-6910-4011-AA10-971563E2AC6E.jpeg
2316EB73-6910-4011-AA10-971563E2AC6E.jpeg [ 1.73 MiB | Viewed 1016 times ]
File comment: Domed side
ACDA4DB3-9A02-4B5B-A987-4276456F130D.jpeg
ACDA4DB3-9A02-4B5B-A987-4276456F130D.jpeg [ 2.41 MiB | Viewed 1016 times ]
File comment: Transmitted light
2B0852DE-0D58-45A9-9B44-DD5FDC31BC4A.jpeg
2B0852DE-0D58-45A9-9B44-DD5FDC31BC4A.jpeg [ 1.82 MiB | Viewed 1016 times ]
File comment: Greasy (?) side. I’m not sure if that’s the correct luster but from what I’ve read it seemed to be the best
E7455A4F-B766-40CA-9F32-1829466D02A2.jpeg
E7455A4F-B766-40CA-9F32-1829466D02A2.jpeg [ 2.29 MiB | Viewed 1016 times ]
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Overwhelmed with info, please help identify!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:13 pm 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:39 pm
Posts: 14
Barbra Voltaire, FGG wrote:
Rhobint, it you want to break off a bit and send it to me, I will ID it for you, no charge.
Let me know.



Hi Barbara, that is very kind, thank you. If we can’t solve this with more assurance I may take you up on that offer. Not because I care what the end result is but because of curiosity.
Thank you.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Overwhelmed with info, please help identify!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:25 pm 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:39 pm
Posts: 14
Duncan Miller wrote:
It may help to suggested to Rhobint how to try to distinguish glass (natural or synthetic) from something like jade. For what it is worth, the photographs of the piece do not say 'glass' to me. Rhobint, please go to this thread to see some images of glass https://www.gemologyonline.com/Forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=21047&hilit=fake+gem+rough. The determining characteristics are internal swirl marks, due to slight variations in the composition and hence refractive index, and round bubbles, often also in swirls but sometimes isolated. I don't see these in your photograph taken in transmitted light. Please look at your specimen with a 10x magnifying glass, using transmitted light, to see if it contains round bubbles. If not, then it may not be glass and it would be worth trying to get it identified physically by a gemologist or someone in a geology department. Then please come back and tell us what it is. This is a learning exercise and you should not be put off.


I looked with a flashlight behind it and magnifying glass and I see little flakes of something but not any air bubbles. Do you see anything I may be missing?


Attachments:
2F2BC6FA-95DE-4767-8A83-AF44A727C146.jpeg
2F2BC6FA-95DE-4767-8A83-AF44A727C146.jpeg [ 1.15 MiB | Viewed 1016 times ]
FA3361DC-649F-4AE2-A423-DE1BE812763E.jpeg
FA3361DC-649F-4AE2-A423-DE1BE812763E.jpeg [ 1.24 MiB | Viewed 1016 times ]
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Overwhelmed with info, please help identify!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:28 pm 
Offline
Gemology Online Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 2:51 am
Posts: 755
Location: South Africa
I don't see bubbles in your photos, unless the little black spots are small bubbles. The apparent lack of conchoidal (shell-like) fractures and the curved but sub-parallel lighter streaks make me suspect it may be a metamorphic rock. Please take up Barbra's offer and send her a chip to ID.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Overwhelmed with info, please help identify!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:02 pm 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:39 pm
Posts: 14
Duncan Miller wrote:
I don't see bubbles in your photos, unless the little black spots are small bubbles. The apparent lack of conchoidal (shell-like) fractures and the curved but sub-parallel lighter streaks make me suspect it may be a metamorphic rock. Please take up Barbra's offer and send her a chip to ID.



I don’t see anything similar to the bubbles in the photos from the link you provided either. The black specs don’t look like bubbles but I definitely can’t rule them out because they are too small to really tell. Thank you for your help and recommendations! May be a silly question, but do you think this could maybe be a material like granite or similar that someone was cutting for a counter top or something and dumped the scape chips in the river? I’m not sure if any of those types of material are translucent or have the same qualities


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Overwhelmed with info, please help identify!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:04 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:58 pm
Posts: 1424
Location: San Marcos, CA
Yes it looks like a worked piece of something that's for sure. By worked does not mean by man only, many things could have rolled over and created this shape but it looks more like a Rock Hounded to me. If it is a natural jade nodule it would have taken it substantial amount of time and traveled distance to end up like that, where if a piece of old window glass from the Alamo or Spanish Church it could have worn to this much sooner. The flat edge was always there, the doming caused by sand hitting the leading, and leaving trailing edge over a somewhat shorter time. I do not follow the practice of guess gemology, I'm not a gemologist and I really do not doubt these here that our, I do not follow the practice of guess gemology for one my wife will not let me, so I let be up to actual testing for positive result.

For all I know you found this in a river bed alongside the interstate between Dallas and Ft. Worth 2 blocks west of where Sally Mae's rock shop was back in the day. (Yes, just a fictitious statement).

I have natural slabs and nodules of nephrite jade from Northern Calif., Washington, and Western Canada that do look similar with light passing through them. So I leave the possibility open on yours, but not as a natural occurrence, as it would have taken some great forces to move it that distance to Texas.

Any things possible in 2020:PC(SIC BV) :wink:

_________________
The Gem Garden
San Marcos, CA


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Gemology Style ported to phpBB3 by Christian Bullock