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 Post subject: Re: Kingston Uni follow up course price drop for EU students
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:29 am 
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Does one also have to take 48-50 units of General Subjects to fulfill undergraduate requirements? Like Arts and Humanities, Social Sciences, Languages, History, etc. in UK?
You do here.


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 Post subject: Re: Kingston Uni follow up course price drop for EU students
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:33 am 
Is that requirements for a B(Sc) award or M(Sc) entry?

Basically, as far as I know, you just do your subject (three subjects at 16-18, and one/combined at uni). I haven't had an English/SS/languages lesson since I was 16.

Did maths, Physics and Chemistry at A-level (16-18), and then Physics at uni (after dropping out of an economics degree). Never heard of people doing other subjects, except of course non-native English speakers getting their TOEIC score up.


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 Post subject: Re: Kingston Uni follow up course price drop for EU students
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:32 am 
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At this stage I'm looking at (just) doing the two years. Bypassing the BSc year doesn't sound like a good plan; I assume I'd be missing out on a heap of important info.

Gathering funding will be the hardest part... we'll see what happens when I get back to Europe, at the moment I'm 'on holiday' 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Kingston Uni follow up course price drop for EU students
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:47 am 
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Barbra, no you don't have to take "extras" to fill out the credits. As I understood it, the course was set up to be "Advanced Gemmology" and they added the Geology modules to fulfil the credit requirements. So the course as laid out covers all you have to take for the BSc.


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 Post subject: Re: Kingston Uni follow up course price drop for EU students
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:18 am 
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Kyriakin wrote:
Is that requirements for a B(Sc) award or M(Sc) entry?

Basically, as far as I know, you just do your subject (three subjects at 16-18, and one/combined at uni). I haven't had an English/SS/languages lesson since I was 16.

A science major in high school (15-17 years) takes chemistry, physics, algebra, trig, statistics in order to qualify as an undergraduate Science Major in University as well as social science requirements.

Once you are accepted in a university, the science or engineering student takes more advanced classes in all of the above subjects.

The great majority of High School graduates in the US do not qualify for admittance in the Science and Engineering departments of Universities.

But, once a student gets into college (with any major), they can take courses to make up for missed high school studies and then switch their major to science or engineering if they wish.


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 Post subject: Re: Kingston Uni follow up course price drop for EU students
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:20 pm 
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Hmmm, the "fees" page has changed yet again, stay tuned...

http://www.kingston.ac.uk/undergraduate-course/gemmology-mineralogy-2012/fees-and-funding.html

Quote:
Current fees for this course
Read more about the proposed fees and funding for 2012 entry.

More detailed information tailored to this course will be available soon. Please check back later.


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 Post subject: Re: Kingston Uni follow up course price drop for EU students
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:42 pm 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
Kyriakin wrote:
Is that requirements for a B(Sc) award or M(Sc) entry?

Basically, as far as I know, you just do your subject (three subjects at 16-18, and one/combined at uni). I haven't had an English/SS/languages lesson since I was 16.

A science major in high school (15-17 years) takes chemistry, physics, algebra, trig, statistics in order to qualify as an undergraduate Science Major in University as well as social science requirements.

Once you are accepted in a university, the science or engineering student takes more advanced classes in all of the above subjects.

The great majority of High School graduates in the US do not qualify for admittance in the Science and Engineering departments of Universities.

But, once a student gets into college (with any major), they can take courses to make up for missed high school studies and then switch their major to science or engineering if they wish.


Although we specialise early, most courses have matriculation requirements. For example if you want to do Medicine then they will want Biology, Chemistry and Physics/Mathematics. Most engineering or science courses will require the same. However they don't require that you also do history, geography etc.

In the same way, if you want to study History then English, Modern History and Latin would all be good choices and no university will expect you do have done maths or biology.

A lot of Psychology courses will ask for Sciences, others are fine with just humanities.

We are all expected to have passed public exams in maths, english and other subjects at 16 to matriculate to A' levels. When I took them we had to study at least one science and one foreign language but I believe that this is (stupidly) no longer compulsory.

I don't know how it works in the USA, but here you can apply to 5 universities. They take into account the subjects you are studying and the difficulty of the exam board (some are easier than others) when they are making offers. Plenty of people don't get any offers first time round. If you want to study a subject at one of the top universities for that subject then you haven't a snowball's chance if you don't have the right qualifications.

'Soft' subjects like law, psychology, media studies at A' level are also not accepted by most of the Russell group universities (like your Ivy League).

You can switch subjects at University, but it's quite complicated and not always allowed - you could switch from Medicine to Bio-engineering, but not from History to Medicine.


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 Post subject: Re: Kingston Uni follow up course price drop for EU students
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:19 am 
pandora wrote:
Barbra Voltaire wrote:
Kyriakin wrote:
Is that requirements for a B(Sc) award or M(Sc) entry?

Basically, as far as I know, you just do your subject (three subjects at 16-18, and one/combined at uni). I haven't had an English/SS/languages lesson since I was 16.

A science major in high school (15-17 years) takes chemistry, physics, algebra, trig, statistics in order to qualify as an undergraduate Science Major in University as well as social science requirements.

Once you are accepted in a university, the science or engineering student takes more advanced classes in all of the above subjects.

The great majority of High School graduates in the US do not qualify for admittance in the Science and Engineering departments of Universities.

But, once a student gets into college (with any major), they can take courses to make up for missed high school studies and then switch their major to science or engineering if they wish.


Although we specialise early, most courses have matriculation requirements. For example if you want to do Medicine then they will want Biology, Chemistry and Physics/Mathematics. Most engineering or science courses will require the same. However they don't require that you also do history, geography etc.

In the same way, if you want to study History then English, Modern History and Latin would all be good choices and no university will expect you do have done maths or biology.

A lot of Psychology courses will ask for Sciences, others are fine with just humanities.

We are all expected to have passed public exams in maths, english and other subjects at 16 to matriculate to A' levels. When I took them we had to study at least one science and one foreign language but I believe that this is (stupidly) no longer compulsory.

I don't know how it works in the USA, but here you can apply to 5 universities. They take into account the subjects you are studying and the difficulty of the exam board (some are easier than others) when they are making offers. Plenty of people don't get any offers first time round. If you want to study a subject at one of the top universities for that subject then you haven't a snowball's chance if you don't have the right qualifications.

'Soft' subjects like law, psychology, media studies at A' level are also not accepted by most of the Russell group universities (like your Ivy League).

You can switch subjects at University, but it's quite complicated and not always allowed - you could switch from Medicine to Bio-engineering, but not from History to Medicine.


The UK is much less formal though I think.

I know a guy who didn't get a single GCSE, having quit going to school at 15. He ended up a bit of a crack-head, and on all sorts of benefits, repeatedly in trouble with the law etc..

At 24, he randomly picked up 'A brief history of time', and didn't understand a word of it. Went over to a London university (which is ranked Number one in the UK for Physics), and directly asked the faculty head if he could do a degree in Physics.

He was put on a short maths course (6 months, I think), and given a pile of reading. Then he was on the course (admitted in the same class as me).

Anyway, of course he got a 1st-Class, and now has a PHD in Astrophysics over in the United States.

It's all a bit 'Good Will Hunting', but the 'rules' on entry are mostly for the huge mass of post-A-Level 18/19-year-olds that flood their applications in at the same time.

Unique cases - especially those who are slightly older - are dealt with much less formally, and with more input from the individuals in the facualty, rather than the central university's mass sifting system.


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 Post subject: Re: Kingston Uni follow up course price drop for EU students
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:34 am 
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Received this from Professor Treloar this morning:

Quote:
A decision as to whether we will run the program this year will be made probably later this week. After that, I hope that we can open it up on UCAS.
 
A couple of points.  I have now checked out the fees issue and the fees for the one year BSc program in Gemmology and Applied Mineralogy will be £3465 for UK and EU students. 
 
As we are changing the structure of the University degree programs from 2013, 2012/2013 will be the LAST time that we will run this program. Therefore, if you wish to take the degree, then this will be your last chance.
 
We will NOT be offering this course in Part time mode , so if you wish to take the course it will have to be as a Full Time student.
 
There will be a School of Geography, Geology and the Environment Open Day on Saturday February 18.  Please let me know if you would like to attend.


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 Post subject: Re: Kingston Uni follow up course price drop for EU students
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:32 pm 
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Sad news... Below is a cut and paste of an email I just received...

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Dear All

 

I am very disappointed to have to tell you that the University has decided not to support the running of the one year top-up degree in Gemmology and Applied Mineralogy for the academic session 2012-2013. As the University is making fundamental changes to the undergraduate degree structure from 2013 onward it will not be possible to develop a Gemmology program going forward. The sad news is that this means the immediate end of Gemmology as a taught program at Kingston.

I append at the end of this letter to you an e-mail to me from Professor Gillmore (the Head of the School of Geography, Geology and the Environment) which summarises the decision taken by Faculty.  

I feel that, as course director, I need to provide you with some explanation for this decision. The degree has never been well subscribed – we have run it twice (once with ten students and once with eight). There is clearly no future in the degree program as the market is remarkably limited, for a whole variety of reasons which I do not really wish to go into. In particular, the overseas market has not produced the flow of students that we had hoped for. This has meant that we have been dependent on small numbers of British based FGAs to register on the course. These are few in number and of course many potential students are running, and managing, businesses which precludes them from taking on the degree program.

I have argued to the University that we should run the course one last time, if only out of fairness to those students to whom I have been talking for some time, or those taking Gem_A exams this year, some of whom have planned the Gem_A route into the Kingston degree for some time. On the basis of discussions that I have had with potential students I believe that we would have had a sufficiently large cohort of students to enable us to run a proper program. Although Faculty is sympathetic to this argument we are dependent on a greater imperative.

One of the unexpected side effects of the University fees issue is that the Government wishes to limit its exposure to current expenditure. As such, it has limited the number of degree places that it is prepared to fund. Kingston University has been told that it can recruit fewer students than last year, and the student allocation has been divided down through Faculties, to Departments to Degree Programs. University’s can expect serious fines for exceeding their target numbers. The School of Geography, Geology and the Environment has a global entry target for this coming academic year.  This sets the Gemmology students against others with a different, and longer term, funding mode. This rationale is set out in Professor Gillmore’s letter to me (please see below).

The Faculty has reluctantly decided that its interests in the new, harsh, funding environment are best served by maximising its efforts on major degree programs with a long term future. I can see and understand their view and, reluctantly, have to acquiesce with it.

There are three things which sadden me personally. 

·         Firstly we have a great program which we are ready to deliver and for which I have teaching lined up. Andy Rankin had agreed to come back to teach on the program and Cally Oldershaw was also enthusiastic about repeating her contribution from last time.
·         Secondly, we are very proud of the “value added” nature of our program. We have taken a number of atypical students, brought them up to University degree standard and delivered four first class honours degrees, eleven upper second class honours degrees and three lower second class honours degrees. I am immensely proud of this achievement which speaks strongly both of the students desire to achieve (often through working together, and I watched this happen as the two cohorts worked out how to do it) and the way that the course team directed them and brought them up to speed. I am deeply saddened not to have the opportunity to do this again.
·         Thirdly, we (both the teaching team and the students) have learned a lot from the external speakers that we have brought in to contribute. It has always been an aim of ours to bring in expertise from industry and that has worked well. I shall miss working with them.

I am deeply disappointed to bring this news to you. The decision is not in my hands. It is not the one that I wished to deliver to you but it is, sadly, the only message that I can deliver. I will talk to Professor Rankin and others and see if we can develop and deliver some individual, focussed short courses that will enable us to deliver some of the course material to those who would be interested. I will keep you in that loop as we explore these possible options.

Professor Gillmore’s letter to me follows below my signature.

Best wishes

 

Peter Treloar


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 Post subject: Re: Kingston Uni follow up course price drop for EU students
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:28 pm 
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Hello everyone. I'm very depressed that the course will not be taking place. Certainly feels like it was my last chance to get a degree that builds on my (almost) existing qualifications. just reading through the previous posts....I'm not affluent, I'm actually rather short on time and cash but I work hard. A very disappointing result in a country where it is increasingly difficult to get any type of education with paying out £30k in fees taking on £10k in debt and taking 3 years off, or, part time: pay out £40K over 4 years of evening classes. :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: Kingston Uni follow up course price drop for EU students
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:14 pm 
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Fiona,

I'm rather hoping that if enough people speak up, they might find a way to put on short and affordable "using the equipment" courses.

But yes, it really is a shame they won't be holding it. It's also a shame that more promotion wasn't done internally, especially abroad where the lab jobs are to be found.


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 Post subject: Re: Kingston Uni follow up course price drop for EU students
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:31 am 
Why don`t GIA or AIGS host such a course.

OK, Gem-A have no lab, and therefore (I am assuming) no equipment, but the other two do.

I can`t afford it either way, but those who want to work in a lab should have a route by which to do so. At the moment there is no route.


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 Post subject: Re: Kingston Uni follow up course price drop for EU students
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:34 pm 
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The GIA hires earth science graduates with advanced degrees.
Every college offers the opportunity to acquire the education if one wishes to pursue it.


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 Post subject: Re: Kingston Uni follow up course price drop for EU students
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:48 pm 
Barbra Voltaire wrote:
The GIA hires earth science graduates with advanced degrees.
Every college offers the opportunity to acquire the education if one wishes to pursue it.

A second degree (and not a top-up year like Kingston would have been, but from scratch), at the cost of xx,xxx pounds and three/four further years, and/or a further xx,xxx pounds and one-to-three further years for post-graduate study?

The sun only has 5 billion years-worth of hydrogen fuel remaining, so the wannabe lab gemmos here had better get their skates on...

If labs looking for "gemologists" (and, let's face it, soon lab gemmos will be the only type of gemmo, as treatments/detection methods become more complex) will only hire "earth scientists", rather than "gemologists", there is a massive dis-connect in the system.

How stupid to think to become a "gemologist" you'd study "gemology". I mean, that makes absolutely no logical sense at all, as the two words are not even remotely related.

I will say it again, in the modern-day industry, the gem qualifications are caught in "no mans land". Not commercial enough for the rank-and-file sales sector of the industry, and not technical enough for the lab-based sector. Even their own industry would rather have earth scientists from a different field.

Kingston was a potential bridge to connect a gem qualification to a legitimate technical/scientific qualification, and although I wasn't in a position to do it myself, I feel for those who have had that one solitary bridge blown-up by what sounds like a load of bureaucratic nonsense.


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