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 Post subject: buyer beware
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:01 am 
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sold to me as "Untreated" clean rough Spinels
by this man from vietnam -https://www.facebook.com/nguyenvantam.nguyen.1291
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in israel they look like this-
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these brownish stains I believe are a result of some kind of unsuccessful fracture filling.


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 Post subject: Re: buyer beware
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:14 pm 
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Shit. Are they even spinel? Can you get our money back? Clearly fraudulent misrepresentation.


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 Post subject: Re: buyer beware
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:30 pm 
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Barbra Voltaire, FGG wrote:
Shit. Are they even spinel? Can you get our money back? Clearly fraudulent misrepresentation.


these are spinels yes, but fractured and stained.
their value is far less than what I paid.
I used paypal and opened a case.
no response from the seller yet...


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 Post subject: Re: buyer beware
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:39 pm 
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Quote:
these brownish stains I believe are a result of some kind of unsuccessful fracture filling.

It looks like typical iron staining.


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 Post subject: Re: buyer beware
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:34 am 
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yes i see them frequently in the low quality lots.
So i am not aware that they treated.
I heard of glassfilling, but these seem to me just included pieces with iron stains and cracks....
You have any evidence that they are treated? would be interesting to hear

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 Post subject: Re: buyer beware
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:32 am 
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Agree, the staining often occurs in cracks in natural rough of many types. It seems to me that your biggest issue is the over saturation of color in the seller's picture.


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 Post subject: Re: buyer beware
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:02 am 
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Dioptase wrote:
Quote:
these brownish stains I believe are a result of some kind of unsuccessful fracture filling.

It looks like typical iron staining.

arglthesheep wrote:
yes i see them frequently in the low quality lots.
So i am not aware that they treated.
I heard of glassfilling, but these seem to me just included pieces with iron stains and cracks....
You have any evidence that they are treated? would be interesting to hear


1bwana1 wrote:
Agree, the staining often occurs in cracks in natural rough of many types. It seems to me that your biggest issue is the over saturation of color in the seller's picture.


Not sure but I think Iron oxide should have been on the outer shell am I Correct ?
this is inside,I already Cut a Piece and its stay inside the fractures.
24h in acid also seems to help to get rid of some of it but not all.
I have videos of the seller with his hands full of oil while represent his goods,
stones wich leave drops of oil on his scale while he weighted the pieces.
*unfortunately I wasn't aware of that but only after money was transferred and he tried to sell me more goods

https://streamable.com/9f195

Image

it's misrepresent of the goods,and It doesn't matter if these stains occurs naturally or not. I would not had bought them if they were represented as they are.


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 Post subject: Re: buyer beware
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:37 am 
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If you are unhappy, then yes you should be able to return the parcel.

Oiling rough is unfortunately becoming more and more common. This is happening even out in the bush.

I have never bought rough on line. But if I did, I would insist on a right to return based on inspection of the actual parcel. Traditionally when buying rough, if you touch even one stone to a wheel, or cut one, then the transaction is done.


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 Post subject: Re: buyer beware
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:14 pm 
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1bwana1 wrote:
If you are unhappy, then yes you should be able to return the parcel.

Oiling rough is unfortunately becoming more and more common. This is happening even out in the bush.

I have never bought rough on line. But if I did, I would insist on a right to return based on inspection of the actual parcel. Traditionally when buying rough, if you touch even one stone to a wheel, or cut one, then the transaction is done.


Traditionally here In the diamonds center they used to finish a deal "with good luck" leave the diamonds on the table and go eat.
not sure if that still the case these days.
seller himself responded today and told me to cut a Piece insists that the stains are on the outer shell.
he can have it,along with the parcel.
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 Post subject: Re: buyer beware
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:26 pm 
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Yep, “Mazal and Bracha”. I have sealed many a deal with that phrase in Israel, and bourses around the World. A nice custom.

If he asked you to cut one, then of course it is on him.


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 Post subject: Re: buyer beware
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:00 pm 
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1bwana1 wrote:
Yep, “Mazal and Bracha”. I have sealed many a deal with that phrase in Israel, and bourses around the World. A nice custom.

If he asked you to cut one, then of course it is on him.


exactly.


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 Post subject: Re: buyer beware
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:25 am 
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Dor wrote:

Not sure but I think Iron oxide should have been on the outer shell am I Correct ?
this is inside,I already Cut a Piece and its stay inside the fractures.
24h in acid also seems to help to get rid of some of it but not all.
I have videos of the seller with his hands full of oil while represent his goods,
stones wich leave drops of oil on his scale while he weighted the pieces.
*unfortunately I wasn't aware of that but only after money was transferred and he tried to sell me more goods



The iron stains can be inside of the cracks too, not just on the surface. If the cracks are surface reaching, you can try to use a solution of oxalic acid to remove the iron staining, but of course the main problem will remain (the stone has crack(s) in it).

Putting oil on rough, especially alluvial rough with a frosted surface, is pretty common. You can have a clearer view of the inside.

As 1bwana1 mentioned a lot of stones are oiled (as in treated) nowadays. I've seen oiled spinels (from Myanmar and Vietnam mostly), tourmalines and tanzanites. Aquamarine too, now. As long as you have surface reaching fissures or fractures, you can oil/resin them.


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 Post subject: Re: buyer beware
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:09 am 
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Yep, in fact I conducted a clarity enhancing class just last Wednesday for my faceting class. I used my heat/vacuum/pressure vessel and Opticon for the demo. The students brought in a huge variety of material including all the quartzes, beryls, tourmaline. spinel, and more. Everything became basically eye clean after treatment. Next week we will show them how to detect treatments such as this using the stones they treated.


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 Post subject: Re: buyer beware
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:21 am 
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Dioptase wrote:
Dor wrote:

Not sure but I think Iron oxide should have been on the outer shell am I Correct ?
this is inside,I already Cut a Piece and its stay inside the fractures.
24h in acid also seems to help to get rid of some of it but not all.
I have videos of the seller with his hands full of oil while represent his goods,
stones wich leave drops of oil on his scale while he weighted the pieces.
*unfortunately I wasn't aware of that but only after money was transferred and he tried to sell me more goods



The iron stains can be inside of the cracks too, not just on the surface. If the cracks are surface reaching, you can try to use a solution of oxalic acid to remove the iron staining, but of course the main problem will remain (the stone has crack(s) in it).

Putting oil on rough, especially alluvial rough with a frosted surface, is pretty common. You can have a clearer view of the inside.

As 1bwana1 mentioned a lot of stones are oiled (as in treated) nowadays. I've seen oiled spinels (from Myanmar and Vietnam mostly), tourmalines and tanzanites. Aquamarine too, now. As long as you have surface reaching fissures or fractures, you can oil/resin them.


common or not,I don't have any issues with treatments,as long as they are been disclosed by the seller no problem...
anyway,I decided to drop the case and keep them.
I found about 10% of the pieces have good clarity and no stains or fractures that go deep or to the middle,so I will sell them and get part of my money out somehow,they can be cut nicely.
regarding the rest,I will try oxalic acid ,and if I will manage to remove it Maybe I Could work around them and cut a few pieces,I will Not sell them as is of course.

1bwana1 wrote:
Yep, in fact I conducted a clarity enhancing class just last Wednesday for my faceting class. I used my heat/vacuum/pressure vessel and Opticon for the demo. The students brought in a huge variety of material including all the quartzes, beryls, tourmaline. spinel, and more. Everything became basically eye clean after treatment. Next week we will show them how to detect treatments such as this using the stones they treated.


and it is indeed a very Important knowledge to be learned, for anyone that is involved or planned to be Involved in the industry.


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