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 Post subject: Re: Yourgemmologi$t.con
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:55 am 
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Richard W. Wise wrote:
Had the "authorities" in gemology spoken up at the very beginning or at all, we would not now be having this discussion.


I agree in full with this but it is unfortunately not what happened.

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 Post subject: Re: Yourgemmologi$t.con
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:52 am 
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Richard W. Wise wrote:

Africanuck,

I think you missed my point, read the rest of the paragraph. The origin of criticism is irrelevant? Surely you know better

And I think you missed his point :-)
I think he was referring not to criticism by authority, but to revelation of actual facts. The facts speak for themselves, regardless of who presents them.

Too often, we do the reverse - accept something because it's presented by an "authority", without looking at the facts.


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 Post subject: Re: Yourgemmologi$t.con
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:15 am 
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In any case, it will be interesting to see how the situation resolves, and it will, sooner or later. I was unaware of the existance of the issue till I stumbled on this thread one idle afternoon. Not being a gemologist, but a mere rock butcher, I generally do not pay attention to these issues, and was actually finding myself puzzled about how it came to be that I was reading the topic.
But in my becoming-long life I have observed that things like this resolve naturally. Someone pushes the limits, sees no penalties, and then believes themselves above morality or ethics. Then Life springs the trap and they are undone.
I have some personal examples. Years ago I passively accepted a long commercially motivated online attack. It happily resolved itself to my complete satisfaction, without any effort on my part.

Another instance is the "Gemking", Paul Ahlstedt. I personally found him a very nice person, quite knowledgable, who had some bad moments and made bad decisions, and became undone by them. He chose to go to war over someone's dementoid garnets, and it turned into Napolean's Retreat from Moscow.

We had a little minor eruption on here a couple of years ago. Someone could not get one of my products to work and went into a micropenile rage about it. It resolved by itself...Just a pebble dropped into a millpond.

So, I suppose the anonymous posse feels some kind of moral obligation here, but sooner or later what will happen will happen, usually by itself. Enough people with hijacked domain names, and things like that, and in these times it only takes one motivated person, as the odds pile up, for some kind of resolution to appear.

That's why I really, really try not to get people mad at me. (Being socially impaired, it's a challenge..)


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 Post subject: Re: Yourgemmologi$t.con
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:27 am 
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AlBalmer wrote:
Richard W. Wise wrote:

Africanuck,

I think you missed my point, read the rest of the paragraph. The origin of criticism is irrelevant? Surely you know better

And I think you missed his point :-)
I think he was referring not to criticism by authority, but to revelation of actual facts. The facts speak for themselves, regardless of who presents them.

Too often, we do the reverse - accept something because it's presented by an "authority", without looking at the facts.


Exactly what the followers (victims) of Mr. James who has set himself up as the "authority for the little guys" do. Someone has given them the means to fact check, good on them.


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 Post subject: Re: Yourgemmologi$t.con
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:32 am 
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But in my becoming-long life I have observed that things like this resolve naturally. Someone pushes the limits, sees no penalties, and then believes themselves above morality or ethics. Then Life springs the trap and they are undone.


Isn't that kind of what's happening?


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 Post subject: Re: Yourgemmologi$t.con
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:46 am 
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Quote:
Then Life springs the trap and they are undone.


Isn't that kind of what's happening?


We are smelling ozone, but the lightning strike itself may be a while in coming.
And it will, if History is a guide.
The wheels of justice grind slowly, but exceedingly fine.

These final resolutions are usually the last scene of the last act of a tragedy. They generally end in some single-event calamity. An Iceberg at full throttle, something going terribly wrong with a nuclear reactor, a plane with no instruments flying through foggy mountains, that kind of awful thing involving Thor's Hammer...


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 Post subject: Re: Yourgemmologi$t.con
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:06 pm 
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All I can say is that I hope his family and followers are well clear when the lightning eventually hits the fan full force.

And as you say, it will. You can only run in front of the storm for so long.


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 Post subject: Re: Yourgemmologi$t.con
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:15 pm 
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I think, not being a gemologist, the thing that got me involved in this discussion at all is there should not be any need of all of this. There never should have been. It just seems seamy to me.
I don't like it. Everyone gets dirty. It's like getting caught in traffic on a country road behind a manure spreader..that's running.

Or going to the mailbox during an election!


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 Post subject: Re: Yourgemmologi$t.con
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:30 pm 
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General Observation
It has been my experience, that most people behave in a way which works for them.

I think anyone can make mis-steps which backfire and do not produce the results they were expecting. #-o

Most folks quickly (and in some cases slowly) realize what isn't working for them and modify their behavior appropriately.

Just sayin', can happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Yourgemmologi$t.con
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:34 pm 
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I'm trying to imagine how one can effectively fight cleanly against someone who fights dirty. Coming up with a blank, sorry for the rotten imagination. :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Yourgemmologi$t.con
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:42 pm 
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That's my point....

Is fighting dirty working or Is the tactic backfiring for Mr. James?
Could another approach produce better results?
Would it be worth considering?


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 Post subject: Re: Yourgemmologi$t.con
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:46 pm 
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Why not suggest the gobsmacked gang an alternative approach by sending in a comment through their site?
I for sure will keep on pointing out stupidities/faulty info/bad science I come across when it is of questionable quality and aimed at beginners and unexperienced. Regardless of if it is from mr James or someone else. I will also continue do this openly.

As their site seems to be monitored by many, I would not mind being quoted by the gobsmacked gang on their site as long as they supply a link to my text in full. I have been quoted by mr James already in an attempt to smear my reputation and he "magically" failed to show my comments in context, that is not OK by my standards.

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 Post subject: Re: Yourgemmologi$t.con
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:30 pm 
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You are misunderstanding my comments.

My point was that Robert James may conclude that HIS current tactics have not gone as he hoped and he may consider a different approach.

I'm quite sure he won't be calling me anytime soon asking for advice, but if he did, I would suggest he focus on his original core intent of providing an alternative and affordable educational option, and be open to the modification of the content of his program when new facts and information presented themselves.

In my opinion, this was a noble endeavor.

Secondly, I would suggest he just stop (right this second) the punitive, mean-spirited actions which simply rile people up......again, focus on the positive educational option.


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 Post subject: Re: Yourgemmologi$t.con
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:30 pm 
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This has been an intersting thread, to someone who is not a gemologist, and is on the periphery, stumbled into it, and is trying to understand how this escalated so badly.

One thing mentioned that does not surprise me is the person's "Acolytes" or True Believers.
I can understand this easily if I get into my time machine and go back to the '60's.

In many groups and organizations, sooner or later an inner group assumes control. I have actually seen people fight over unpaid positions!
Now, just suppose the Illuminati have taken over the field of gemology. (I have no idea, nor do I care.)
I recall Ralph Nader against GM. At the time, I cheered him on, because he was Fighting The Machine and Sticking It To The Man.
(Disclosure..Yes,I owned a Corvair at the time, really..)
Other examples come to mind..Silkwood, for one.

So I could actually see myself having sympathy for a person who fights the Established Order.

Where this collapses, and the point in a chess game I would call the fatal move, was the domain Name trick..Cybersquatting, cyberterrorism. whatever.
To anyone who owns a domain, even if it's a silly one with dancing teddy bear GIFs, the use of these things is the moral equivalent of using anthrax and phosgene.
This is the point where an outside observer who may have said, "Well, maybe he has a point" will run for their lives.

How bad is it been? Years ago I worked with someone who had a small Hi-Tech sideline business. Some hosts would sell the names of soon-to-expire sites. He went to his site one day and saw a page full of porn links, and there was an email awaiting him that he could have his site back fr $3,000. Some guy in CA had a nice business ransoming websites.
So to a webmaster this just SO bad, that if their own mother did it, he'd spit on her grave.


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 Post subject: Re: Yourgemmologi$t.con
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:05 pm 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
You are misunderstanding my comments.

My point was that Robert James may conclude that HIS current tactics have not gone as he hoped and he may consider a different approach.

I'm quite sure he won't be calling me anytime soon asking for advice, but if he did, I would suggest he focus on his original core intent of providing an alternative and affordable educational option, and be open to the modification of the content of his program when new facts and information presented themselves.

In my opinion, this was a noble endeavor.

Secondly, I would suggest he just stop (right this second) the punitive, mean-spirited actions which simply rile people up......again, focus on the positive educational option.


I'd agree that his original idea was a good one. I kind of doubt that he's capable of changing tactics though, not without dealing with whatever causes his underlying inability to accept and admit that when he's wrong, he's wrong.

Hell, he registered my name as a domain after I pointed out that something I had paid him for way back when that was supposed to be given anonymously to 2 other ISG students was never sent, nor did they even have any idea it was supposed to have been sent. He took the money though.


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