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 Post subject: Accounts of the Kunz "subway or sewer" Garnet
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:33 am 
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:?:

"Weighing in at roughly 9 pounds and used for years as a door stop at the Department of Public Works, this specimen is the most famous mineral specimen from Manhattan Island. Rumored to have been found in an excavation for the subway system, according to an article by mineralogist John Betts, the large garnet was found August 1885 by a laborer digging a sewer. Unknown is whether the garnet was removed from a metamorphic host rock or whether it was found loose."

http://dukelabs.com/NYC%20Minerals/NYCmins.html

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The Kunz Garnet discovered by George F. Kunz

interesting differences in the accounts given as how this garnet specimen was discovered noted by john betts of john betts' fine minerals:

http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com/j ... garnet.htm


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:48 am 
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Does anyone know the geology of Manhattan?
Would we expect to find a garnet xl there?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:56 am 
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I saw a show on the geology of manhattan..that show on History channel..what was it called?..they said garnets had been found when digging building basements and subways..I think???..maybe it wasnt that show..I saw it somewhere

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:13 pm 
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Location: San Francisco
I googled.
Manhattan consists of a Cambrian schist....yep, you'd expect garnets:
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More info on the geology of Manhattan

Very cool. Most things out west are geologically "new kids on the block".
It would be really cool to go on a Geology Walk in Manhattan. :D


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:24 pm 
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The American Museum of Natural History maintains an amazing collection of garnets and other minerals collected during excavation of the subway system. I saw it years ago and it kindled my long-standing interest in garnets.

Mineral collectors scour excavations for new buildings in Manhattan to try to locate specimens.

Here are some links of interest:

An old one from a 1902 NY Times article about rare minerals "beneath our feet" in Manhattan: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9907E7DA1530E733A2575AC0A9649C946397D6CF

An on-line geology "tour" of New York and surround from the U.S. Geological Survey: http://3dparks.wr.usgs.gov/nyc/index.html

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:45 pm 
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:D 8) wow, thanks for the links and information ms. barbra and rom! interesting!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:55 pm 
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The "gemology" and "mineralogy" in the old NYT article leave a lot to be desired. But the idea that green garnet exists in those metamorphosed schists is quite interesting. I particulary enjoyed :lol: the reference to red tourmaline as "bubbelite." But at least the piece gives some interesting references to the general locations of NYC minerals found by the time it was published.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:10 pm 
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:lol: bubbelite :lol:

never heard of "colophonite," or green garnet called by this.?

rom, did you see the famous kunz garnet when you visited the american museum of natural history in ny??


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:24 pm 
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:oops: just looked for info and images on colophonite. from wikipedia-colophonite is a misonomer for "grossular," and states colophonite is coarse granules of garnet.

then from the mindat message forum which has it listed as a varietal name for andradite:

"The historical record lists other varietal names for andradite other than those listed below, but you will rarely see them in collections, especially American collections. The reason for this is partly because of nomenclature name changes and partly because the localities that produced these varieties are no longer active today. In addition many specimens of these varieties are rather unattractive, often rough and/or massive and not competitive with the much better specimens of andradite and other garnets that command the attention of collectors and museums today. Many of these once abundant specimens are from old localities and have been simply thrown away. Some of these varietal names are: allochroite, colophonite, rothoffite, polyadelphite, bredbergite, aplome etc."

:?: eh :?:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:41 pm 
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There are many obsolete gem and mineral names in the literature. Language and terminology change almost daily.

Some references place "colophonite" as andradite, saying it was found at Franklin, N.J. Since grossular and andradite form a solid-solution relationship it's hard to know which species was actually meant.

I think "bubbelite" may just be a typo. I spent plenty of time in the writing/publishing trades and know how easily they are to miss -- until they're in print!

I may have seen the Kunz garnet but that day has faded somewhat in my memory. I recall many more perfect smaller crystals, which captured my imagination.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:41 pm 
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Photograph information:
Garnet Group Andradite variety Colophonite in wollastonite Iron calcium silicate Willsboro, Essex County, New York

Date of picture:
15 April 2007(2007-04-15)

Dave Dyet
http://www.shutterstone.com
http://www.dyet.com

i visited dave dyet's website (dyet.com), and he has some awesome photography of the northern lights!

i also found Vesuvianite being called "colophonite" in older material. ?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:56 am 
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i believe what jason mentioned he watched on colorvision is on the history channel now. "how the earth was made" series on "how the geology of manhattan helped shaped its skyline."

i started recording about 5 minutes on the dvr after the episode started. unfortunately the dvr will not allow the option to record the entire episode.

i walked in/out of the family room once or twice and heard the narrator mention "kyanite" and "mountains."

will watch it later.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:38 pm 
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geology of the city of New York 1901 (at the internet archive)
http://www.archive.org/details/geologyc ... 00gratgoog


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:05 pm 
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:D thanks for the link, red dirt! hooked the link up to my faves!!
gotta lot to read and watch on the tube about ny geology tomorrow!! y'all ready for a field trip?:wink:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:34 pm 
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John Betts has an article with a map of where he collected dravite tourmaline in Manhatton
http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com/j ... inwood.htm


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