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 Post subject: Re: Rough gemstones
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:09 pm 
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Mohmand wrote:
Still, its good to know that at least the stuff I am holding is genuine. Wouldn't you agree?


No I wouldn't agree with this either. just because it looks natural doesn't always mean it is. As to why buyers of good gem rough in the mining districts of the world use specific tools to weed out the possible imitations and synthetics. There are very elaborate methods of trying to disguise a natural gemstone even in the rough form when large dollars are sought. I have personally had buyers of rough supposedly unaware and state they bought the rough directly from the miners, trying to get me to cut it for them. But before I ever lay a facet on that rough it has to be tested, which means handing it to my gemologist in rough form for evaluation. If its to good to be true its probably not. I have seen large sizes of corundum come in and it be synthetic, to the unaware it looks natural. Imagine this you walk in to have a piece of ruby you just purchased at what appeared to be a great deal at the gem markets in Urusha from a miner, looks real, trust the dealer, got a great price, add your travel costs to and from. You bring it in to have me cut it, I say sure here's my cost. I cut the stone, you walk out the door headed to the GIA to get a report, but to your surprise the report tells you that your stone isn't as natural as you had hoped. Now with that realty you either accept that you have been had from the get go or maybe you believe I switched the rough you gave me. The morale of the story is I will not cut the rough until all parties are aware of what is being cut.

If your happy with the stones for what they are pretty faceted gems that's all that matters. All I believe we were trying to tell you was from a faceting view point that material is not gem grade faceting rough. Yes a few pieces of the colorless are and possibly the smoky quartz colored. You emphasized this thread as being about the great rubies, we just disagree.

There's no hard feelings here.

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 Post subject: Re: Rough gemstones
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:51 am 
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Dear @glhays,

I have no disagreement with what you have stated. It is true that there are synthetics in rough too. But here, the issue is that I got these from the mines. They blast the area where there is gemstone presence, collect the specimens, clean them, separate the best quality from the rest (for which there are instant buyers from around the globe). I bought these from one such site, where the miners descended from the mines with thee stones.

I hope this answers your question. And sure, no hard feelings. I am here to share and learn. You are more than welcome to test these if you like. I'll send them over to you, including some of the better pieces in there.


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 Post subject: Re: Rough gemstones
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:49 pm 
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Mohmand wrote:
Dear @glhays,

I have no disagreement with what you have stated. It is true that there are synthetics in rough too. But here, the issue is that I got these from the mines. They blast the area where there is gemstone presence, collect the specimens, clean them, separate the best quality from the rest (for which there are instant buyers from around the globe). I bought these from one such site, where the miners descended from the mines with thee stones.

I hope this answers your question. And sure, no hard feelings. I am here to share and learn. You are more than welcome to test these if you like. I'll send them over to you, including some of the better pieces in there.

I have no questions, good try explaining it away, I did not figure you would do anything but that. Happy Trails to you to chap!

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 Post subject: Re: Rough gemstones
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:23 pm 
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Mohmand wrote:
But here, the issue is that I got these from the mines.

Read what glhays actually wrote. One of the first rules of buying rough close to the source is just because you bought it at the mine doesn't mean it was from the mine--indeed, the closer you get to the source the more likely you are to be sold a fake, and the higher quality fakes you are likely to find.
You might also think because the rubies you bought aren't top notch that they likely aren't heated. But low temperature heat treatment can absolutely improve the appearance of lower end rubies cheaply and easily--I have only done it once on a low-end Pakistani ruby slice, but it went from a purplish-pink-red to a pure pink-red, a very striking difference. That was an oxidizing heat in a non-specialized kiln at about 1000c, you could do that with a bonfire.

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 Post subject: Re: Rough gemstones
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:33 pm 
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@glhays @stephen Challener

Well ok guys, there's a GIA trained gemologist in our area. I'll get these rubies certified for non-heat, non-treatment. I'll then post the certificate here. Would that satisfy you then? @stephen These rubies are not from Pakistan, but from Jigdalik Afghanistan


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 Post subject: Re: Rough gemstones
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:14 pm 
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Mohmand wrote:
@glhays @stephen Challener

Well ok guys, there's a GIA trained gemologist in our area. I'll get these rubies certified for non-heat, non-treatment. I'll then post the certificate here. Would that satisfy you then? @stephen These rubies are not from Pakistan, but from Jigdalik Afghanistan

Your not getting the point for some reason. I do not need to be satisfied, just trying to tell you that stating a grade of stone to the public as something you really have no actual facts of is misleading to the unaware public. Your the one who says your trying to learn, want to be an expert at some point, do not claim something is something without actual facts. Just because someone decends from a mountain with something and typically not sapphire or ruby, maybe your Ethiopian prized opal was. Does not mean that all is on the up and up. Test it, get the facts, acquire the knowledge based on the testing . THEN SHOUT FROM THE MOUNTAIN I HAVE UNHEATED UNTREATED GEMSTONES. Hey and by all means if your personally at site next to the person or you are the person who found the gem and you have had possession of that rough from the beginning that is a fact, again shout it as loud as you want. That's all I was trying to point out. Pakistan, Afghanistan, Tanzania, Australia, Africa, USA that was not the point either, heat treating corundum can be done in a fire pit and is commonly done right at the sites or in nearby villages.

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 Post subject: Re: Rough gemstones
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:28 pm 
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Any cost of having those stones tested will exceed their value.

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 Post subject: Re: Rough gemstones
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:52 am 
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Agreed Allen.
I might suggest spending a little money on education.

Have you considered downloading this reference?
http://handbookofgemmology.com/store.html

Best $50 you'll ever spend.


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