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 Post subject: red apaptite
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:56 am 
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I got sucked into buying a red apatite. Hope what they are saying is true, unheated, never before seen on the planet, you know the drill. any comments? 6.09 cts.

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 Post subject: Red apatite...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:16 am 
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Was watching the gem shopping show 2 days ago & watched one of their suppliers show a new stone he says was discovered 3 yrs ago off the african? coast. He found a very small vein of this material & purchased almost all from the mine, he says. He has just finished cutting & mounting the stones for the gem shopping network & they are the sole supplier of the total collection. The stones are colored a dark pinkish red, look clean, & good sizes from @2cts to 30cts a stone, the hardness is same as blue apatite, @5 on the Mohs scale, since there is a finite amount for sale, this is a collector item but mounting should be done in a pendent because its easy to mar the material. Anybody heard of this before?- 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Red apatite...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:02 pm 
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That is interesting. One thing that springs to mind is that pink apatite from Pakistan tends to fade in sunlight and IIRC can have its color bumped up bt gamma irradiation.

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 Post subject: Re: Red apatite...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:18 pm 
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The guy hawking this new find is Don Kogen of Thaigem.com and
Game Of Stones fame. You can believe about 10% of what comes out of his mouth. My guess is irradiated light pink apatite.

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 Post subject: Re: Red apatite...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:33 pm 
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Game of stones was some of the worst 3 minutes of TV I've seen.

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 Post subject: Re: Red apatite...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:23 pm 
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I'm new to the whole lapidary scene, but I am a scientist. One of the rules of thumb of science is that nothing is taken as true unless it's been peer-reviewed and cross-verified. If this gentleman sent a sample of this new material to an impartial, third-party institution that could run its own tests and confirm what he says it is, I'd believe him. Failing that, I'd err on the side of caution and assume he's either mistaken or lying. If this truly is some unseen type of apatite, it would behoove the seller and greatly increase the value of the material if it was confirmed to be what he said it is. If he's unwilling to obtain that proof, it would strike me as shady.


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 Post subject: Re: Red apatite...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:33 am 
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daver1, if u bought ur stone from don kogen or the gem network, i think u probably have a legit item, more of a collector stone that is not on the market or anywhere else in the format that was shown, less than 400 items were made, some smaller stones were sent to the better labs in the US for verification with positive results, i almost bought some myself but i have some very unusual collector stones already so im happy to have seen another gem that is new to the industry, i dont see the andisine gravel that was dumped by JTV years ago that was found to be mexican origin, re-cooked in china, then dumped on the market with a story change weekly-JTV ended up re-buying back ALL the material they sold & settling several law suits over the stone. Don K. has been in the business for 40 yrs, has traveled the world buying & seems to know his business, he is aggressive & i think this scares some people from buying his material. This is my opinion from my findings & im happy with the results- 8)


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 Post subject: Re: red apaptite
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:14 pm 
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daver1 wrote:
I got sucked into buying a red apatite. Hope what they are saying is true, unheated, never before seen on the planet, you know the drill. any comments? 6.09 cts.


My advice - send your stone as soon as possible to a lab like GIA or AGL.

Find witnesses - a dokumention of every step would be very helpful.

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 Post subject: Re: Red apatite...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:18 pm 
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ruby302 wrote:
daver1, if u bought ur stone from don kogen or the gem network, i think u probably have a legit item, more of a collector stone that is not on the market or anywhere else in the format that was shown, less than 400 items were made, some smaller stones were sent to the better labs in the US for verification with positive results, i almost bought some myself but i have some very unusual collector stones already so im happy to have seen another gem that is new to the industry, i dont see the andisine gravel that was dumped by JTV years ago that was found to be mexican origin, re-cooked in china, then dumped on the market with a story change weekly-JTV ended up re-buying back ALL the material they sold & settling several law suits over the stone. Don K. has been in the business for 40 yrs, has traveled the world buying & seems to know his business, he is aggressive & i think this scares some people from buying his material. This is my opinion from my findings & im happy with the results- 8)



Steve - quite sure you are right ....less than 400 items were MADE!

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 Post subject: Re: Red apatite...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:12 pm 
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ruby302 wrote:
that was found to be mexican origin

No. The mexican material is bytownite, not andesine. The andesine was sourced from inner mongolia.

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 Post subject: Re: Red apatite...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:17 pm 
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ruby302 wrote:
daver1, if u bought ur stone from don kogen or the gem network, i think u probably have a legit item, more of a collector stone that is not on the market or anywhere else in the format that was shown, less than 400 items were made, some smaller stones were sent to the better labs in the US for verification with positive results, i almost bought some myself but i have some very unusual collector stones already so im happy to have seen another gem that is new to the industry, i dont see the andisine gravel that was dumped by JTV years ago that was found to be mexican origin, re-cooked in china, then dumped on the market with a story change weekly-JTV ended up re-buying back ALL the material they sold & settling several law suits over the stone. Don K. has been in the business for 40 yrs, has traveled the world buying & seems to know his business, he is aggressive & i think this scares some people from buying his material. This is my opinion from my findings & im happy with the results- 8)
You are right, his reality show is legit.He travels to some hell hole in a remote part of the world that only he can find. He and his band of misfits battle the gypsy mafia, underworld criminals and all kinds of international bad guys.He then finds, buys,cuts and delivers this world class gemstone to some rich unnamed customer. The only thing these clowns are fighting is getting to the front of the buffet line while filming this phoney show. He has been in business for 40 years, that's pretty good fo someone who is 41.The world famous designer who only uses D flawless accent diamonds is the same girl that handled his travel arrangements on the show. By the way he doesn't mention that these accent stones are all half pointers.He is a scammer don't be so gullible.

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 Post subject: Re: Red apatite...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:16 pm 
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CoreyB wrote:
I'm new to the whole lapidary scene, but I am a scientist. One of the rules of thumb of science is that nothing is taken as true unless it's been peer-reviewed and cross-verified. If this gentleman sent a sample of this new material to an impartial, third-party institution that could run its own tests and confirm what he says it is, I'd believe him. Failing that, I'd err on the side of caution and assume he's either mistaken or lying. If this truly is some unseen type of apatite, it would behoove the seller and greatly increase the value of the material if it was confirmed to be what he said it is. If he's unwilling to obtain that proof, it would strike me as shady.


Just what I was going to say when I realized it had already been said.
I am certainly not familiar with anything in the literature about red apatite.

And yes Stephen is correct. The red andesine in the hullabaloo was mined in Mongolia not Mexico. The Mexican association was alleged by someone who relied on bad science and was proven 100% wrong!


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 Post subject: Re: Red apatite...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:37 pm 
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Red apatite is known in specimen grade crystals (scroll down on this page and look at the specimen from the Yates mine in Canada https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~adg/adg-pspimages.html#apat ). It would be really nifty to have some gem grade material out there.

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 Post subject: Re: Red apatite...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:08 am 
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Thanks. The pink one on the row below is cool!


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 Post subject: Re: Red apatite...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:36 am 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
CoreyB wrote:
I'm new to the whole lapidary scene, but I am a scientist. One of the rules of thumb of science is that nothing is taken as true unless it's been peer-reviewed and cross-verified. If this gentleman sent a sample of this new material to an impartial, third-party institution that could run its own tests and confirm what he says it is, I'd believe him. Failing that, I'd err on the side of caution and assume he's either mistaken or lying. If this truly is some unseen type of apatite, it would behoove the seller and greatly increase the value of the material if it was confirmed to be what he said it is. If he's unwilling to obtain that proof, it would strike me as shady.


Just what I was going to say when I realized it had already been said.
I am certainly not familiar with anything in the literature about red apatite.

And yes Stephen is correct. The red andesine in the hullabaloo was mined in Mongolia not Mexico. The Mexican association was alleged by someone who relied on bad science and was proven 100% wrong!


Google "red apatite" and you find nothing...

Reading D. Kogen and I am with Nicky...

I like apatite - underrated with nice colors - love the new lavender stones from Namibia and pink is quite rare...

But red ( like spinel, ruby or rubellite ) - and nobody knows them except this television Münchhausen....

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