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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire opinions
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:49 pm 
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Fodder wrote:

Bill Sechos put his name to that, on the authentication report. But he was realistic enough to understand that we will need to take it to the U.S. to confirm his opinion.


Or, Gubelin labs in Switzerland. It can all be done by post these days.

http://www.gubelin.com/en/gemmology/gemlab


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire opinions
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:57 pm 
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Fodder, your find is exceptional.
What else is in that box?


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire opinions
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:40 pm 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
Fodder, your find is exceptional.
What else is in that box?


Hi Barbra,

My partner and I went over to mum's to give her the news that we couldn't keep the stone. I had a look in the plastic bag (not box) that the sapphire was in...Some green and red tourmaline, a garnet and some quartz. :o The sapphire is in her safety deposit box now.

I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into your posts...

So the SSEF would be better to authenticate than GIA?

and

The "very faint patchy orange reaction under LWUV" is unexpected for a Kashmiri sapphire? So don't get too excited?


Cheers and thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire opinions
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:46 pm 
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@Isi,
I asked my mother more about where the stone came from, and indeed you were right and I was out by a generation. My mother's paternal grandmother (my great grandmother) was from a wealthy family. She did a lot of traveling and likely purchased the stone(s) on these trips. This also gels with what Bill Sechos stated verbally, which was along the lines of...it's less than 100 years since it was cut...but not by much. He also said "there are good cutters and bad cutters from every era, so it's hard to be certain".

Cheers and thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire opinions
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:57 pm 
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@1bwana1

Thanks for the links and gentle/helpful prompting.

I'm leery about posting this stone. The insurance I've been quoted is 4% of the value! Uninsured post seems stupid. The jeweller suggested that Birks have secured transport, but even then I worry about the chain of custody.

Needless to say LA/San Diego is the easiest option for me...1 non-stop long-haul flight. But, Switzerland seems to have been suggested by both yourself and Barbra. Is it that important that the stone goes on a Swiss vacation, or is GIA up to the task?

Cheers and many thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire opinions
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:12 pm 
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Absolutely, the GIA is up to the task. They have access nor only to their lab but also to instrumentation at Caltech.

I remember some years ago (10+), one of our members had a sapphire sent to GIA, AGL and Gubelin for origin determination.

All 3 gave a different opinion of origin.... the possibility of which was well covered in each lab's disclaimers.

With more sophisticated instrumentation, origin determination has become far more of a science and less of a speculative educated opinion in the last decade.

Your sapphire is an important stone. A lab report indicating Kashmir would be frosting on the cake, but the sapphire stands on its own with or without frosting.


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire opinions
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:38 pm 
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There are a number of World Class, well accepted labs in Bangkok. Nice place for a short vacation, and not too far from you.

http://www.giathai.net/laboratory/lab-services/

https://www.aigsthailand.com/AIGS-Lab-Services-EN

and don't forget Richard Hughes author of the most authoritative book on Ruby & Sapphire ever published. He would be the most likely to spend personal quality time with you. He and his family are such great people to get to know.

http://lotusgemology.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire opinions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:42 pm 
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Back again,

It seems that I'm in the market for a more...let's say...cost effective...replacement for the stone that we gave back. The jeweller has already made the ring for the original stone. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. In some ways it would have been easier if it was just synthetic like mum originally thought.


BTW my partner likes red and blue.


Cheers and many thanks folks, you've been great!


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire opinions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:40 pm 
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Well, since you involved us in an interesting discovery, and seem to have chosen the high road at all points in the process, the least we can do is help you choose a suitable replacement.

Since you keep referring to the recipient as "your partner" I am guessing that the ring will be worn every day. That limits us to one of the durable species of stone. Budget must also be considered, can you give us an idea of what you are comfortable with.

As you have found out, natural Ruby or Sapphire will be expensive. Synthetics will range from moderate to essentially free. There are other natural stones of various price points that may be suitable as well.

As the ring is already made to fit the original Sapphire we should make the stone fit the mounting. The lab report gives us the dimensions as 11.79mm X 7.86mm X 6.45mm. We also have a picture that gives us a reliable color. We could cut a custom synthetic Sapphire that is a close replica of the original if that would have meaning for you.

Lots of possibilities,

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire opinions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:27 pm 
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Thanks Steve,

I included a cad file (as a pdf) from the jeweller.

A synthetic at close to the original would be more our style. My partner is what you would call "a knockabout Sheila" (in a wonderfully admirable way). She's in charge of the car at all times when there's a trailer attached (she backs one up like a champ), throws paving stones like a pro, then finishes the day rendering the house. So the stone would need to withstand all that.

She became frightened it when the original jeweller valued it. When we found it's potential origin she nopped out, and said she enjoyed having all ten fingers. I'll ask her whether she would like synthetic ruby or sapphire tonight. What is a ballpark figure for each?


Cheers and thanks,


Attachments:
ringcad.pdf [325.98 KiB]
Downloaded 46 times


Last edited by Fodder on Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire opinions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:38 pm 
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The cost to make a pulled synthetic in either Ruby or Sapphire will be very inexpensive. Since the design is for a prong set stone, there is enough size tolerance to buy a pre-cut one. Since your "Shiela is a knockabout" you might be better of having the jeweler do a bezel set.

As for price, you have choices.

Chatham grows premium synthetic gems using an expensive flux process. The stones are probably as close as you will get to a natural stone. One of these stones the size you need will be somewhere between $1,000 and $1,500 U.S Dollars.

At the other end of the scale are the inexpensive flame fusion synthetics that would cost under $50 U.S. Dollars

There are also choices in between.

Start by visiting Tom Chathams website and read about the different types of synthetics.

https://www.chatham.com/pages/lab-grown-guide#our-gems

Here is a dealer in Bangkok who specializes in medium quality synthetics.

https://www.gemsngems.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:58 am 
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As for me, having been about to wear a beautiful natural sapphire and turning to a mere cheap synthetic stone would make me disconsolate ! :smt026
But then !


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:27 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:19 pm 
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I'm confused.
If your partner is afraid of having the ring stolen while it was being worn, why would they want to wear an identical copy of the ring? Wouldn't that leave them just as vulnerable to a theft?


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire opinions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:01 pm 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
I'm confused.
If your partner is afraid of having the ring stolen while it was being worn, why would they want to wear an identical copy of the ring? Wouldn't that leave them just as vulnerable to a theft?

Her misgivings were several. Firstly, she would never wear it for fear of losing or breaking the stone.

Secondly, the danger of theft would keep her awake at night. Thirdly, we aren't fancy people...her words were, "I ain't no princess, I don't deserve this, we need to give it back". Believe me...I took a few hours longer than her to come to this position.

My mother's basis of gifting the stone to me and my partner was that it was likely a crap stone or a synthetic, and I would have to compensate my brother accordingly. When this changed, we gave the stone back.

So now we have an empty ring but a great story. If we can afford a heated stone of a similar size and colour, then we will get one. Elsewise, a synthetic will speak to us just as loudly about this wild trip and fantastic story. So soon we will have a replica engagement ring. Not a replica based on someone else's taste, but based on our own initial design and stone.

In other good news...Bonhams Australia have agreed to facilitate the logistics to get the stone authenticated at the Gubelin lab and SSEF. They will only charge us cost, and won't require consignment for this service.


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