January 24 Through February 4—TUCSON, ARIZONA: Annual show
Welcome to the GemologyOnline.com Forum
A non-profit Forum for the exchange of gemological ideas
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:22 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Unheated Ceylon 5+ carat sapphire with arrowhead inclusions?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:52 pm 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:57 am
Posts: 13
Hi all, I also purchased a 5.78 carat sapphire ring in supposedly its original Art Deco setting that came with a NAGL (North American geological laboratory) certificate signed by a Thomas B Elliott (GJG, GIA NAJA member) stating unheated nature of sapphire, but does not go into detail what tests were done to come to that conclusion.

Given NAGL is not a big name like AGL or GIA, can anyone attest to its reputation?

Also, I included some photos under the loupe of what to me looks like they could be arrowhead silk inclusions? Do those alone confirm an unheated status? Or is it possible nowadays that sapphires are exposed to low heat treatment and can still retain such inclusions? Should I send to GIA or AGL and if so what special tests must be done to detect low level heating?

In summary,

1. Given the ring cost quite a bit (around $14000), can I be confident based on what I have now that this is indeed an unheated sapphire?

Thank you as always and I look forward to your teaching!


Attachments:
408A466D-55C1-4EE8-A6C2-BD39080F400F.jpeg
408A466D-55C1-4EE8-A6C2-BD39080F400F.jpeg [ 2.7 MiB | Viewed 1636 times ]
57A7C091-B08A-4720-9C11-D70FFC12F9FD.jpeg
57A7C091-B08A-4720-9C11-D70FFC12F9FD.jpeg [ 148.4 KiB | Viewed 1638 times ]
53CF9E29-1649-4321-98ED-1D939C6C4B35.jpeg
53CF9E29-1649-4321-98ED-1D939C6C4B35.jpeg [ 145.59 KiB | Viewed 1638 times ]
8A852EB8-0004-4956-BB81-90F81B909198.jpeg
8A852EB8-0004-4956-BB81-90F81B909198.jpeg [ 834.04 KiB | Viewed 1638 times ]
8FEE8325-DAF0-4320-89C0-18BF4DD42B19.jpeg
8FEE8325-DAF0-4320-89C0-18BF4DD42B19.jpeg [ 2.62 MiB | Viewed 1638 times ]
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Unheated Ceylon 5+ carat sapphire with arrowhead inclusi
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:46 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:31 pm
Posts: 4015
Location: North Carolina
Those do look like intact rutile inclusions which should rule out high temperature heat treatment. Unfortunately I don't think there's any reliable way to detect low temperature treatment, but it is also a much less drastic treatment.

_________________
Rough and cut classic and exotic synthetic gems:https://store.turtleshoard.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Unheated Ceylon 5+ carat sapphire with arrowhead inclusi
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:14 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 21602
Location: San Francisco
The appraisal document looks solid to me.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Unheated Ceylon 5+ carat sapphire with arrowhead inclusi
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:07 am 
Offline
Gold Member

Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 2:18 am
Posts: 1542
The presence of unbroken, and fairly course rutile silk would confirm that this stone was not subjected to high temperature heat treatment.

Low temperature heat treatment is a different story, and much more difficult to recognize currently. There is some research that suggests that changes to included crystals, and the fractures around them may provide evidence of low temperature heat treatment. This is current research, and I am not aware of any labs that currently make the determination for low temperature heat as part of their report.

So, using today's standards this stone will be called not treated. As our knowledge and technology expands the potential for this to change in the future exists. But we can only work and make our decisions in the current environment.

For your reference:
https://www.lotusgemology.com/index.php ... xperiments


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Unheated Ceylon 5+ carat sapphire with arrowhead inclusi
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:52 am 
Offline
Valued Contributor

Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 4:13 am
Posts: 222
A bit late to the party, but these thick unbroken silk are fairly common in unheated sapphires from Sri lanka.
If you are based in the US, you can send it to AGL for your peace of mind.


Image
Nice rutile silk in unheated sapphire. If you want to compare :wink:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Unheated Ceylon 5+ carat sapphire with arrowhead inclusi
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:50 pm 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:57 am
Posts: 13
Thank you to all for your thoughts and the lovely comparison photos!

Of note, I noticed a dark mark on one shoulder on both sides. Is this an old solder mark (repair with non platinum?), or gunk (does not come off with warm water/soap/brush). Should I be worried in terms of structural integrity of the setting and take it in to get looked at by a local bench (once COVID is over...).

See circled area on shoulder below (the ring is flipped to show both sides of the same affected shoulder):


Attachments:
B0CAD272-8190-4CA0-828A-70587C1978B3.jpeg
B0CAD272-8190-4CA0-828A-70587C1978B3.jpeg [ 418.05 KiB | Viewed 1505 times ]
544EB973-4AC6-4F3B-9E5F-FD29D3392B0F.jpeg
544EB973-4AC6-4F3B-9E5F-FD29D3392B0F.jpeg [ 422.26 KiB | Viewed 1505 times ]
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Unheated Ceylon 5+ carat sapphire with arrowhead inclusi
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:45 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 21602
Location: San Francisco
Quote:
Should I be worried in terms of structural integrity of the setting and take it in to get looked at by a local bench (once COVID is over...).

No problem with structural integrity. Are you wearing the ring?
I think bringing it to someone who works with platinum would be a good idea for the future, Good cleaning and a repolish would improve the look of the ring.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Unheated Ceylon 5+ carat sapphire with arrowhead inclusi
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:25 pm 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:57 am
Posts: 13
Dear Barbra,

Thanks for the advice. Yes, I wear it most days. Any good bench/jeweler you recommend in SF for a good platinum clean/polish servicing and checking the prongs?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Unheated Ceylon 5+ carat sapphire with arrowhead inclusi
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 12:53 pm 
Offline
Valued Contributor

Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:36 am
Posts: 118
Location: New York
Hello all,

As this was brought up by a post here, this is just to give some additional information. AGL has been disclosing relatively low temperature heating on our reports for more than 11 years now. Throughout my career, I regularly worked on this very topic and so have had robust criterion in place over this time.

I always saw relatively low temperature heating in a way as a positive. When heating at relatively low temperatures, this is really just a topic of color modification. At these temperatures (below the threshold to dissolve rutile silk), there is much less than can be accomplished as compared to relatively higher temperatures.

For the vast majority of this time, other labs were letting such stones go as: No indications of heating. But more recently, labs such as GIA, SSEF, Gubelin, Lotus, etc. have been working on this topic and so are overall in a better position now to recognize stones heated in this manner. The main question is how are they handling stones that were given a 'No indications..' report previously, when they are resubmitted now?

In theory, reports are only valid for the criterion/knowledge of the date issued and so such reports and conclusions should be updated. However, there can also be big numbers associated with the difference between stones that were sold as 'unheated' and now receiving a 'heated' determination. Thus complicating the matter significantly.

This was why I preferred to have the difficult conversations with clients upfront regarding low temperature heated stones, even when other labs were letting them pass because they didn't yet have the criterion to recognize them.

Best regards to all, be well and stay healthy!
Christopher P. Smith


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Unheated Ceylon 5+ carat sapphire with arrowhead inclusi
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:54 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 21602
Location: San Francisco
Question.
I would presume that low heat is determined by alteration of mineral inclusions that alter at lower temperatures than rutile.
Is that correct?

Which mineral inclusions, altered by a lower heat, effect the cosmetic look of the sapphire?

What temperatures are we talking about?

Thanks Christopher.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Unheated Ceylon 5+ carat sapphire with arrowhead inclusi
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:26 pm 
Offline
Valued Contributor

Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:36 am
Posts: 118
Location: New York
Hi Barbara,

Some low temp heated stones are recognizable due to slight changes in their inclusions, when they are more thermally sensitive. In other cases, you may see some SWUV reactions, in others there are mid-IR characteristics, etc. Not all stones exhibit all of these features, but many do.

There are still some stones that may have been low temp heated, which we are not yet able to recognize as well.

I never published our specific criterion because you then give people doing the treatment knowledge so they can work to get around the criterion.... I have been criticized for not publishing when AGL was the only one recognizing low temp heating. However, now that other groups have published, I am seeing stones where some of the long-standing criterion is now absent in some pieces..... That is the difficulty when trying to decide to publish or not to publish....

Best regards and stay healthy!
Chris


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Unheated Ceylon 5+ carat sapphire with arrowhead inclusi
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:33 pm 
Offline
Valued Contributor

Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:36 am
Posts: 118
Location: New York
Relating to your other question, low temp heating is most commonly applied to remove color. Such as blue color zones in rubies, etc or a purplish (i.e. bluish) color component in a ruby or pink sapphire, to change a purple sapphire to a pink sapphire or ruby. To make a sapphire colorless (i.e. white sapphire), and more.

One can also add color, such as making a yellow sapphire more yellow, changing a pink sapphire to an orange or padparadscha color (if Mg is present) and increase blue color.

This is a much more expansive topic than a majority of the industry has realized. And a challenge for labs and gemologists to recognize.

Again best regards and stay healthy!
Chris


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Unheated Ceylon 5+ carat sapphire with arrowhead inclusi
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:07 pm 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:57 am
Posts: 13
Dear Christopher,

Thank you for the further explanations!

Be safe and well.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 4 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Gemology Style ported to phpBB3 by Christian Bullock