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 Post subject: Canary tourmaline and Zambian emeralds
PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:13 pm 
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Hello,

Peshawar (in north Pakistan) is the largest wholesale gemstone market in Pakistan, especially for gems coming from Afghanistan. Some are of very fine quality. By chance, I got info about a particular seller wanting to sell this beautiful piece of tourmaline from Afghanistan, which happened to be the rare yellow (canary tourmaline). Had to do a lot of negotiation with the guy and finally got my hands on it. Beautiful, clean peace, but expensive too. Plus, he had some pieces of nice emeralds, not loupe clean but still good looking, and at reasonable price. They looked like the were from the famous Panjsher area, but lab tests put it to Zambia, unheated untreated. YES, I got both tourmaline and emeralds tested from a lab, before I put these up here.

Cheers.


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 Post subject: Re: Canary tourmaline and Zambian emeralds
PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:45 pm 
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The yellow Tourmaline is often available in Africa inexpensively. Tanzania often produces very fine quality in good quantity, aat prices below $25 per carat. I am not sure what premium is placed on one from Pakistan, or even if origin can be established by a lab for this type of tourmaline.

Do a search on line for Tanzanian Yellow Tourmaline.

Emeralds are never (as never as never can actually be) heated. They are almost always clarity enhanced through oiling and filling. I would like to know what lab did the report, and see a copy of it.

I find it interesting that in an area that is famous for having its own Emerald deposits, these Emeralds turned out to be of African origin. The dealer who sold them to you obviously has access to African stones. If he is the same dealer that sold you the Tourmaline, then possibly they are African as well.

Just thinking out loud here. No evidence.


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 Post subject: Re: Canary tourmaline and Zambian emeralds
PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:18 pm 
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I have to remember my pledge to keep a distance from this OP. But I have to agree with Steve here just bc he knows what he's talking about.

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 Post subject: Re: Canary tourmaline and Zambian emeralds
PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:12 pm 
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The picture you posted provides little detail. However, looking at the color, clarity, and texture of the Emeralds in the picture the are very typical of clarity enhanced stones.


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 Post subject: Re: Canary tourmaline and Zambian emeralds
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:37 am 
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Afghanistan is famous for its tourmalines, but yellowish one's are rather rare. I have another one, the indocilite variety, which I'll share with you guys sometimes later. So they are found there, but in limited quantity. That's where the price premium comes in. As for Emeralds, African emeralds are available in the market relatively easily. I don't know why, but part of the explanation lies in geography. Zambian emeralds, especially high quality, are in high demand in India's famous emerald markets like Jaipur, as are others (like Pakistan's Swat mined emeralds and Punjsher's emeralds). The African emeralds usually come through two routes, Dubai and Afghanistan, before reaching India. But in between lies Pakistan, and while traversing through Pakistan, some part of the lot stays there. That explains how Zambian emeralds can be found in markets like Peshawar, Pakistan.

Regarding lab, there's one in Islamabad (Pakistan's capital) where a GIA trained gemologist operates it as well as an antiques shop. He's probably the only GIA certified gemologist in Pakistan. The shop's name is 'Islamabad antiques', and the gemologist's name is Faizaan. You guys are welcome to look it up on he net, just for confirmation. I just had these checked for originality, but didn't get a certificate for the simple reason that I don't intend to sell any of them. It costs a bit to get a certificate, and I am saving up on that cost.

Trust me though that I did get them checked. I do that now every time I intend to buy gemstones b/c I've been scammed previously due to inexperience. You don't want to spend money on useless stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Canary tourmaline and Zambian emeralds
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:19 pm 
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Are you familiar with: I am not recommending, I am just curious if you are aware of them.

https://www.pgjdc.org/company-initiatives.php?catId=24

http://www.pakistangemlab.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Canary tourmaline and Zambian emeralds
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:46 am 
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Barbara,

I am familiar with the one in the first link, a government owned lab initiative, and I can tell you that its an utter waste of time. You won't find quality gemologists in these labs.

Didn't know about the second one. Lahore is about 4 hours away from where I live, so I might even give it a try when I am there. But I am pretty confident in the abilities of the guy I mentioned in my earlier post.


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 Post subject: Re: Canary tourmaline and Zambian emeralds
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:39 am 
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The old "I know a guy" certification report.

But, if you think about it, it wasn't too long ago that this was the norm in the World.


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 Post subject: Re: Canary tourmaline and Zambian emeralds
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:51 pm 
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:smt023 ohhh that guy, you know "my guy"

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 Post subject: Re: Canary tourmaline and Zambian emeralds
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:09 pm 
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1bwana1 wrote:
The old "I know a guy" certification report.

But, if you think about it, it wasn't too long ago that this was the norm in the World.


I get your point my friend. But you are not getting mine. The reason I mentioned the shop's name (where the gemologist works) is to clear any doubts, and that you can check it on net. He's a GIA certified gemologist. You'll find his certificate number too.


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 Post subject: Re: Canary tourmaline and Zambian emeralds
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:16 pm 
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Mohmand wrote:
1bwana1 wrote:
The old "I know a guy" certification report.

But, if you think about it, it wasn't too long ago that this was the norm in the World.


I get your point my friend. But you are not getting mine. The reason I mentioned the shop's name (where the gemologist works) is to clear any doubts, and that you can check it on net. He's a GIA certified gemologist. You'll find his certificate number too.

With all sincerity to you, I just looked up your antique shop you referenced and I do not see any mention of a GIA gemologist. Am I missing it?>

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 Post subject: Re: Canary tourmaline and Zambian emeralds
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:25 pm 
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No, I am not missing your point, but I think you are missing mine.

I know thousands of GIA Graduate Gemologists, but the industry has moved on from that. The sophisticated equipment required to be considered a Lab capable of "removing doubt" is extensive. Most GGs understand that they are no substitute for a lab these days.


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 Post subject: Re: Canary tourmaline and Zambian emeralds
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:02 pm 
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Random neural firing: To begin with, it annoys me when someone refers to a GIA educated gemologist as "certified". The GIA does not "certify" anything. In addition, they do not offer "certificates", they provide identification reports.

Now, to address the thread at hand.
I appears that you posted a couple of items from your collection that you were impressed with and wanted to share.

We are lucky GemologyOnline has attracted a rather sagacious group of industry professionals. I would call your toumaline yellowish brown or brownish yellow. Not a color I see often, but when I think of a canary, I think vivid. Your stone is not vivid.

Don't underestimate our observations. We've seen a thing or two around here. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Canary tourmaline and Zambian emeralds
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:58 pm 
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Barbra Voltaire, FGG wrote:
Random neural firing: To begin with, it annoys me when someone refers to a GIA educated gemologist as "certified". The GIA does not "certify" anything. In addition, they do not offer "certificates", they provide identification reports.

Oh really?
Image
They sent a replacement that says 'diploma' and told me to destroy this one but I didn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Canary tourmaline and Zambian emeralds
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:03 pm 
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Yep, I and many of my students this year took advantage of the free AJP classes this year. We all got the bad "Certificates" when we finished. Like you they sent us the corrected "Diplomas" later.

Despite the printing errors G.I.A. is adamant that they don't certify anything, or any one. They issue reports , Diplomas when titles are earned, and Certificates of completion for each component class completed successfully. This is a subtle but significant distinction.

The OP want to claim the "Certified" Status, and "Removal of Doubt" to add credibility to his merchandise. However, he wants to do this, and claim the benefits, including origin, without paying for a recognized lab report. He wants to do this for stones that judging from the pictures represent the lower end of the quality scale for each species.

In fact properly used the term "Canary Tourmaline" only apples to Tourmaline that is high in manganese (a proper report would show this manganese content and the instrument used to determine it) and is lemon yellow in color, not the yellow/green/brown color in the OPs picture. This would properly just be called a yellow or golden tourmaline, not Canary.

Now, what am I missing here.


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