January 24 Through February 4—TUCSON, ARIZONA: Annual show
Welcome to the GemologyOnline.com Forum
A non-profit Forum for the exchange of gemological ideas
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 6:26 am

All times are UTC - 4 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: online diamond grader
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 11:53 pm 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:25 pm
Posts: 25
Hi, I just thought of posting this question here in case anyone knows the answer..
I stumbled upon a website that can do grading for diamond cut by entering all specifications of the stones into the appropriate boxes.
Unfortunately, I forgot the name of the website since it was quite a long time ago, and now am trying to find it again because I want to 'play' around with it.
I got the website from one of the online forums as well (but I dont think it was from this forum).
any help would be appreciated :))

cheers from down under!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 12:37 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 21602
Location: San Francisco
I don't think it is beyond anyone's ability to make cut quality judgments without the use of a program, but perhaps you are referring to:
www.e-praise.corn

I'm not interested in discussing the program, as we have covered it ad nauseam in the past.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 9:56 pm 
Offline
Gold Member

Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 11:00 am
Posts: 1133
Location: Monterey, CA
The beauty in using a computer program is that the less you know about how the program calculates its results, the more confidence you can have that the result its correct. :D :D

In the case of grading programs, the user knows nothing about what calculations or assumptions are involved so the only thing one can do is assume the answer is 100% correct. :( :(

Ignorance is bliss. :wink:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 4:40 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 11:24 am
Posts: 7523
Location: Rome, Italy
Hi Dr. Hanneman,

Bill Hanneman wrote:
In the case of grading programs, the user knows nothing about what calculations or assumptions are involved so the only thing one can do is assume the answer is 100% correct. :( :(


I would say it's not a matter of programs only. IF the proportion garding set would be numerical clear, a grading program would be nothing more than an automated tool providing for simple calculations. The real problem IS many proportion grading systems involves subjective evaluations, so there's no chance to have a standardized and repeatable grading, even if you submit the stone directly to the lab.

ciao
alberto

_________________
GemmoRaman-532 - GemmoFTIR - GemmoSphere - EXA


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 11:11 am 
Offline
Valued Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:10 pm
Posts: 199
Location: Mexico
Hello All,

Do not know why this post is set under AIGS?

The good news for me is that, if there is people that are still spending time to program software like this, that mean there is quit a demand and then still a lot to do for us!

The hardest part is how to build confidance with the owners. When you play with a software, the confidance is like "already set". Why a soft would lie to you. The soft would not buy your diamond and say it is a VS instead a VVS for example. People like that even if in 90% of the case it is not true.

Best regards

Olivier


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 11:32 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 11:24 am
Posts: 7523
Location: Rome, Italy
Olivier wrote:
Do not know why this post is set under AIGS?


quite right Olivier, fixed.. 8)

Quote:
The hardest part is how to build confidance with the owners. When you play with a software, the confidance is like "already set". Why a soft would lie to you. The soft would not buy your diamond and say it is a VS instead a VVS for example. People like that even if in 90% of the case it is not true.


i think the issue is about proportions grading software here...i'm not aware of the esistence of clarity grading software.... neverthless i wouldn't be surprise if in the future someone would develop one.. :D

ciao
alberto

_________________
GemmoRaman-532 - GemmoFTIR - GemmoSphere - EXA


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 9:19 pm 
Offline
Valued Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:10 pm
Posts: 199
Location: Mexico
Ok Alberto, missunderstood the "grading for diamond cut " for me grading is a complet analysis...

Thank you!

_________________
Olivier Louy, M.Sc, A.G.
Master of Science - Earth Science


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 1:25 am 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:25 pm
Posts: 25
Sorry wasnt aware the has been a discussion for this topic.. and I wasnt sure where to post it too before, thanks for moving it to the appropriate place Alberto!
As for the website, it's not e-praise (but thanks alot barbara), and I'm aware of the pros n cons that arise from the existence of this kind of software. nevertheless for me the software is very interesting because it sometimes gives lower results than the lab certificate :) anyway of course the best way to grade diamond is by having the diamond in question right in front of me, but to me when a software like sarin is found to be of great use to determine the best cut for a rough, I think software that calculate the cut grade is also worth looking at.
:)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 10:26 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Posts: 21602
Location: San Francisco
Sarin is a sophisticated apparatus which uses software.

Your point that some "software" program(s) occasionally grades diamonds, never seen by the person using the "software" lower than the labs, having the stone in front of them.....well, ......what can I say.
The internet has created a generation of folks who think they can plug numbers into some program, the parameters of which they have no understanding, and make a sophisticated and educated determination.

I'm with Dr. Hanneman on this one.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 12:47 am 
Offline
Established Member

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:25 pm
Posts: 25
WHen I talked about the "lower result" I don't mean overall grade, but just the cut grade.... while I dont have any intention to rely on it as the absolute correct cut grading, I like use it as comparison (for the lack of better things to do maybe...:p) and want to re-visit the website again now that I have some new stones with certificate before I sell them off. just for my personal venture (but still cant find it until now :().
and apology about the mistake about sarin,somehow I always take it as a computer software :shock:
you mentioned that this topic has been discussed in length before, is it the thread about eCS? or another thread older than that? (I've read only up to page 6 or 7 of this diamond forum )


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 3:38 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 11:24 am
Posts: 7523
Location: Rome, Italy
There are more manufacturers and gears, the limit is that there isn't only one proportion set used, EVERY lab has his own; they differ each other a little, ok, but they differ and for this reason many prop. grading electronic devices have built in features that allow the user to change the desired proportion set. The latest GIA cut grade system includes new features that are actually impossible to be graded by a machine. Concepts like "Diamond Patterns", "brightness", "fire", "scintillation", "painting", "digging out" are new variables that necessary requires the human eye (and the purchasing of a new expensive shoesbox.... :? )

HAS wrote:
you mentioned that this topic has been discussed in length before, is it the thread about eCS? or another thread older than that? (I've read only up to page 6 or 7 of this diamond forum )


take a look HERE (found on page 6...)

ciao
alberto

_________________
GemmoRaman-532 - GemmoFTIR - GemmoSphere - EXA


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: online diamond grader
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:21 pm 
Offline
New to the Forum or The Quiet Type

Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:43 am
Posts: 1
Location: Horsham, PA USA & Mumbai, India
http://gemappraisers.com/oldcutgrade.asp

This is a parametric based program which covers many common shapes which I developed in the 1990s. It is good for screening diamonds for durability, visual size and does relate to overall appearance. I would not say it is equal to some of today's advanced digital analysis of diamond light return, but it has good relevancy to diamond quality and craftsmanship.

If someone would like this program they can download a zipped file which works easily in Windows XP on http://www.datlas.com

Dave Atlas
datlas@datlasestates.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: online diamond grader
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:41 pm 
Offline
Gemology Online Royal Princess

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:56 am
Posts: 6461
Location: The frozen north prairie :-/
Wow, Dave! You truly are "the quiet type"! :lol:

I lived in Horsham for a year ... lovely place :D .

_________________
IIJA Registered Gemologist
GIA Graduate Gemologist


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 4 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Gemology Style ported to phpBB3 by Christian Bullock