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 Post subject: A VERY Interesting and Yet VERY Disturbing Article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:28 am 
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A VERY Interesting and Yet VERY Disturbing Article I came across


http://www.jckonline.com/2011/12/21/why ... dium=email

Would like to hear what you all think of this.

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 Post subject: Re: A VERY Interesting and Yet VERY Disturbing Article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:38 am 
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hi Lashawn and thx for posting that,

that's scary, although i'd have something to say about big lab reports discrepancies..... :?

ciao
alberto

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 Post subject: Re: A VERY Interesting and Yet VERY Disturbing Article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:46 am 
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Diamond grading is speculative, at best.
Lang Antiques always double checks reports.
We have dismissed a few as blatantly "wrong".

What will be accurate? The Sarin results on dimension and weight results on the scale.

Until color and clarity can be reliably and repeatedly graded with instruments it is simply an opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: A VERY Interesting and Yet VERY Disturbing Article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:50 am 
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I'm not in that business, and in no way qualified to grade a diamond, but it seems to me that if you disagree with a GIA or other lab's grade, you should communicate this to the lab, and insist that they redo the grading properly. Before it gets to the customer.

If the labs have a problem, it will never get fixed if you don't tell them.


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 Post subject: Re: A VERY Interesting and Yet VERY Disturbing Article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:58 am 
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Greetings Alberto

Lets hear your comments.


I have some comments and some suggestions that I will add later on in this thread but waiting to hear what others have to say about this article.

Thanks Barbra for the input as well.

More to come later

Lets hear from the others.

HOWEVER RE-READ the ARTICLE VERY CLOSELY

Some want to completely avoid and disregard the 4-C’s all together and come up with their own nomenclature.

“A Beautifully Spread Stone” a 0.90 ct. diamond that looks like a 1.00 ct. diamond at a reduced price.
GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: A VERY Interesting and Yet VERY Disturbing Article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:00 pm 
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This is also a very common thing here in Scandinavia. If I'm in doubt I always contact a colleague who is working his own diamond lab since late 70's. Many many times we have seen, sometimes big, misstakes by labs. Problem is that very few jewellers here are able to correctly grade diamonds at all...

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 Post subject: Re: A VERY Interesting and Yet VERY Disturbing Article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:27 pm 
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The current scheme of diamond color and clarity is just that....a scheme.
It creates an artificial illusion of rarity within a commodity that is not rare.

I have said before, I'd support bringing back River, Wesselton, Crystal and Cape and calling it a day.


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 Post subject: Re: A VERY Interesting and Yet VERY Disturbing Article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:08 pm 
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I wouldn't mind that either.

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 Post subject: Re: A VERY Interesting and Yet VERY Disturbing Article
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:21 pm 
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Barbra Voltaire wrote:
The current scheme of diamond color and clarity is just that....a scheme.
It creates an artificial illusion of rarity within a commodity that is not rare.

I have said before, I'd support bringing back River, Wesselton, Crystal and Cape and calling it a day.


Hmmm, I detect the presence of a joke here. :D

The 4C's as a "scheme" do at least provide a framework for a common language to describe the characteristics of a diamond. When sellers go off willy-nilly coming up with their own descriptions it comes across as just more self serving marketing hype. The last sentence is pretty telling in this article:
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"This is a bold and time-consuming initiative for us," says Mike. "But by changing the way our customers talk about diamonds, we have the potential to be market leaders."
Market leaders in what exactly...creative marketing? They certainly are not adding more clarity to a description of a diamond, but are definitely pushing the sales aspect in their inflated descriptions. I wouldn't buy from anyone who was pushing this agenda without at least having an opinion from a respected lab in addition to their sales pitch.

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 Post subject: Re: A VERY Interesting and Yet VERY Disturbing Article
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:11 am 
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I can see it now ... every jeweler decides on his/her own "Value Notes" for diamonds. A customer takes his diamond to a different jeweler and his diamond is called by some other descriptor. Soon everyone is confused and a well-known organization has to create a system everyone can use and understand. Oh, wait, that happened already, didn't it?

Also, how would an appraiser describe a customer's diamonds for insurance or resale value? Whose "Value Notes" are used?

BTW -- I have a Berkey Water Filter System ... so my "finest water" is probably better than others' "finest water" :mrgreen: . Bring your diamonds to me for "certification".

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 Post subject: Re: A VERY Interesting and Yet VERY Disturbing Article
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:36 am 
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How does one describe and value a sapphire? An alexandrite? An emerald? A strand of pearls?

How have we appraisers and merchants survived describing every other gemstone in existence without a monopolistic cartel telling us how to do it?

:smt102 Beats me.


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 Post subject: Re: A VERY Interesting and Yet VERY Disturbing Article
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:08 pm 
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LaShawn wrote:
Some want to completely avoid and disregard the 4-C’s all together and come up with their own nomenclature.

One can argue about the precision of Color and/or Clarity grades. Carat Weight is not a problem. The problem lies in CUT because it cannot be adequately described by a single term. One needs to think in terms of 5-C's, where the 5th C is Condition.

At the NAJA meeting in Tucson, I have been allotted 15 minutes to clarify the whole issue. It can be done, but requires replacing all previous cut grading schemes with one (Hanneman Objective Cut Rating) which is completely objective and universally applicable. Using it, every competent grading laboratory and/or gemologist can produce precisely the same result for the Cut of a stone. Also, every buyer, seller, or customer can instantly understand how it relates to the value assigned.

How do you like them apples? :D :D


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 Post subject: Re: A VERY Interesting and Yet VERY Disturbing Article
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:46 am 
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Bill, Apples are yummy, maybe you'll put out a booklet or lecture notes for those of us who can't be there.

Value notes seem to correspond to "sales talking points". It brings to mind the saying "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS". :wink:

My personal opinion is that usually when someone is trying to muddy the waters, it's for no one's benefit but their own. And while it's easy to understand how one can be unsure of the actual grade of a mounted diamond, it seems to me that a business like the guy in Ohio that buys loose diamonds at the going rate for their graded quality and then downgrades them wouldn't be solvent for long.


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