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 Post subject: Certified Blue Diamond bought from Dubai
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:42 am 
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Hello Everyone,

It has been the long time ever since I logged into the website.
I am currently deployed to Afghanistan, and just came back from R & R.
My R & R was 1 week staying at Dubai, and I've decided to purchase Natural Blue Diamond.
I bought it from the large mall at Dubai, and seller guaranteed that this diamond is natural blue diamond.
It came with certification from ISO certified lab, but not sure if I made the right decision or not.
After all, I am just amateur in terms of any gem purchasing.
Here is information from the certification.

GEMMOLOGICAL REPORT OF AUTHENTICITY

Variety: Natural Diamond
Weight: 1 cts.
Color: Blue
Shape Cut: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 6.16 - 6.15 x 3.98 mm
Refractive Index : 1.79 over range
Comments: N.A.

This is my first diamond purchase, and I have no idea what above information means.
However, I've contact the lab via e-mail, and they've verified that lab report is from them for the item specified above.
I just need professional opinion on my purchase.
Your help will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

V/R

CPT JJL


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 Post subject: Re: Certified Blue Diamond bought from Dubai
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:01 am 
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Hi JJl,

are you aware about natural (and untreated) blue diamonds prices???
Last "decent" one i saw live and in person was in Baselshow, 1.15 cts, pear, I1, fancy blue, asking price: 175.000 US$ per carat............

here some links after fast googling: http://www.fancydiamonds.net/blue_diamonds

http://www.israel-diamonds.com/search/F ... c=LPSearch

here a blue on auction: http://www.fancydiamondbids.com/catalog.asp?catid=388

there are more other resources with Hidden prices.........
so, i dunno what's the asking price for your stone but, well, if it's a real natural, untreated blue diamond............it can't be cheap for sure..... :wink:

OTOH, there's plenty of "cheap" irradiated blue diamonds on the market......but that information is not included in your report........... and i don't know that ISO lab from Dubai..... :roll: could you post more infos??

ciao
alberto

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 Post subject: Re: Certified Blue Diamond bought from Dubai
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:44 am 
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Alberto,

I did not know blue diamonds are that expensive.
See pictures attached.
Lab said it was ISO certified just like IGI, EGL, etc,.
Your opinion on this diamond and cert?


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 Post subject: Re: Certified Blue Diamond bought from Dubai
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:27 am 
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JJL wrote:
I did not know blue diamonds are that expensive.


yup, they are!! highly speculative and difficult market, more than one got burned there.......

Quote:
Your opinion on this diamond and cert?


ok, never id a stone from a picture and so on..............BUT.......... from what i can see you have an I1 clarity stone there (which is actually not so important for nice fancy colours stones comparing to colorless, BTW)
Besid that, IF the colour is actually as appear on my monitor i say you could have a vivid blue there, IF the stone should turned to be untreated, it's price could be in the range of 100-200 K US$..........

BUT

i don't beleive in miracles mate.............what you "could" have there is an irradiated diamond............
i would call again the lab asking specifically for that cos it's not mentioned there, and i find that really weird.................

just my 2c, of course...........
ciao
alberto

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 Post subject: Re: Certified Blue Diamond bought from Dubai
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:20 am 
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Alberto,

With your advice, I contacted the lab with report number.
What they are explaining is that they still contained the record of specific authentication and cert of this diamond.
When they were going through standard operating procedure of diamond authentication, they could not identify any trace of irradiation (nuking the stone) or HTHP (no idea what that is.. seems like name of virus).
However, they could not do further thorough research on this stone due to lack of high end equipment (Do you really need one?).
That is the reason why they left comment N.A.
They said origin is somewhere (I cannot pronunciate) in India region.
Do they have diamond mine in India?
I spend quite a bit on this stone alone (price of decent car price).
Hope my wife loves it.

Alberto, what should be my next course of action? Your thought?

V/R

CPT JJL


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 Post subject: Re: Certified Blue Diamond bought from Dubai
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:51 am 
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JJL wrote:
With your advice, I contacted the lab with report number.
What they are explaining is that they still contained the record of specific authentication and cert of this diamond.
When they were going through standard operating procedure of diamond authentication, they could not identify any trace of irradiation (nuking the stone) or HTHP (no idea what that is.. seems like name of virus).


ok then, i just find their report deceptive at best. in the business you canno't really sell a diamond on these bases, treatment (if present) must be always disclosed. If a lab is not equipped to spot for some treatments they could always reject the stone (not able to made a report) or write in the comments they're not equipped in order to spot for some enhancement processes, i.e further analysis must be performed in order to spot for them.
Quote:
However, they could not do further thorough research on this stone due to lack of high end equipment (Do you really need one?).

they need - as any other reputable lab - for advanced equip. again, if they're unable to report for enhancement they can do a lot of things, the worst one is to write N.A.
Quote:
They said origin is somewhere (I cannot pronunciate) in India region.
Do they have diamond mine in India?

not anymore since ages, mate.....at least to my knowledge
Quote:
I spend quite a bit on this stone alone (price of decent car price).

i dunno what do you mean for "price of decent car price"
Quote:
Hope my wife loves it.

i hope that too

Quote:
Alberto, what should be my next course of action? Your thought?

well, i dunno what to say. i'm pretty confident if you submit that stone to a reputable lab it will turn out "irradiated". OTOH prices of natural and untreated similar fancy are out of the range of normal people so, irradiated stone market is perfect for people that actually loves colored diamonds but don't want to spend a fortune on them.
what i find wrong is to release an ID report without even a single note about that....... :roll:

ciao
alberto

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 Post subject: Re: Certified Blue Diamond bought from Dubai
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:12 am 
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Hm... Alberto,

Here is the lab website address.
http://www.igitl.com/

Another questions for this specific diamond.
If it is irradiated diamond, what would be the price?
Cost of lab testing in the states?
What would be the best way to identify if this is irradiated or not by using simple equipments (I have chelsea filter, dichroscope, 10X loupe, dark field loupe, and LWUV light)?
Thanks for your kind answers.

V/R

CPT JJL


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 Post subject: Re: Certified Blue Diamond bought from Dubai
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:34 am 
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first let me say i didn't identified the stone as irradiated, just to be clear, (again) it's impossible to ID a stone from pictures only so, given all the info at hand it's very possible you have an irradiated blue diamond in your hands but that is a guess ONLY, ok??
that said:
Quote:
If it is irradiated diamond, what would be the price?


you know there's not such thing as a "market", there are many, and prices are related to them, so prices may vary, even a lot.
Quote:
Cost of lab testing in the states?

i would contact GIA or AGS and hear what they say. In the US they're commonly considered the most reputable.
Quote:
What would be the best way to identify if this is irradiated or not by using simple equipments (I have chelsea filter, dichroscope, 10X loupe, dark field loupe, and LWUV light)?

well, in some rare cases (nowadays) a color concentration can be spotted very close to the culet but it's not easy to see and many of the new irradiated stones doesn't display that feature. I don't have a picture of such optical phenomenon at hand, maybe another member could jump in and help.
hope that helps a bit
ciao
alberto

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 Post subject: Re: Certified Blue Diamond bought from Dubai
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:54 am 
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Alberto,

Below is the answer back from the lab in e-mail.

Subject: Re: igitl.org
From: igitlj@gmail.com
To: tedlee75@msn.com

Dear Ted,


In case of irradiated diamonds it is always not possible to identify the treatment, if we get indications of radiation we mention about that in the report.


In this case it was not possible to detect.


You may get it test at laboratories like gemological institute of america, in some cases they may detect the treatment.


Regards,


Mustaqeem Khan


Hm.. I don't know what to say, but best gemologist in that lab replied that they could not find indication of radiation.
Your thought on his reply?

V/R

CPT JJL


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 Post subject: Re: Certified Blue Diamond bought from Dubai
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:11 am 
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JJL wrote:
In case of irradiated diamonds it is always not possible to identify the treatment


that is exactly the kind of info i would have read instead of N.A.

Quote:
gemological institute of america, in some cases they may detect the treatment.


i think GIA can ALWAYS detect irradiation, the only exception is for green colors since the origin of green in the natural diamonds is due to natural irradiation, hence, lacking other features it's not always possible to establish if the radiation was natural or artificial occurred.

Quote:
, but best gemologist in that lab replied that they could not find indication of radiation.


Again, if a lab is not equipped to face all the issues it should at least warn the customer that further analysis are required....
BTW, if you're in Dubai you could submit the stone to IGI, they have a lab there:

IGI dubai
Office Unit No 27-A, B, C & G,
Almas Tower, Plot No. LT-2,
Jumeriah Lake Towers,
Dubai, U.A.E.
Phone: + 971 4 450 8027
Fax: + 971 4 450 8023

they will be able to correctly ID your stone..... :wink:


ciao
alberto

PS: one last advice: next time it would be better to ask here BEFORE to purchase something you are not able to correctly ID by yourself...... :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Certified Blue Diamond bought from Dubai
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:15 am 
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I have to wonder WHY this research wasn't done before purchase.


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 Post subject: Re: Certified Blue Diamond bought from Dubai
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:43 am 
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Alberto,

Yeah, I agree, but at that specific time, I did not have means to research.
I was in Dubai for a week to take a rest from Afghanistan deployment (mid rest point).
Spend first 6 days enjoying civilization, and 1 day shopping around for my family.
That Blue Diamond purchase was impulsive in nature, remembering my wife's favorite color.
Either it is real natural blue diamond or enhanced blue diamond, it will end up in my wife's finger. :D
Now, I am back at Afghanistan wondering if I got ripped off or not :wink:
Wish me luck, since I am going to ID the stone at state once I finished with my obligation.

Thanks.

V/R

CPT JJL


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 Post subject: Re: Certified Blue Diamond bought from Dubai
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:50 am 
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JJL wrote:
Now, I am back at Afghanistan wondering if I got ripped off or not :wink:


i wouldn't say you was ripped off in any case.......... by your own admission you was not aware about natural blue prices, otherwise i think you wouldn't start searching for one to buy, right??
the worst situation i see you paid more (maybe not much more) than what you would have paid in the US for the same stuff....... :wink: ......which is the typical situation of almost all purchases of that kind abroad..... :lol:

Quote:
Wish me luck, since I am going to ID the stone at state once I finished with my obligation.


no need to, another case would have been if you paid 150 k for that!!!

ciao
alberto

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 Post subject: Re: Certified Blue Diamond bought from Dubai
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:00 am 
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Alberto,

I did not and will not or do not have that kind of money (150k) to burn. :o
I paid $1200 for it.
However, not sure if it was a good deal or not.
I just hate to be ripped off.
Beside, emerald that I've purchased from Kabul mission turned out really well.
I didn't send them to the respective lab or anything, but overall appraisal was close to 10k for 4 stones.
All 4 stones will be evenly distributed to my wife's ear, neck, and finger. :lol:

Thanks for your kind advice, and I shall follow your advice.

Thanks again.

V/R

CPT JJL


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 Post subject: Re: Certified Blue Diamond bought from Dubai
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:13 am 
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JJL wrote:

I paid $1200 for it.


ok, you wasn't ripped off..... :lol:

Quote:
Thanks for your kind advice, and I shall follow your advice.

Thanks again.


YW, good, all the best, ciao
alberto

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