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 Post subject: "synthetic diamond scam"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:59 am 
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latest article by Martin Rapaport

http://www.diamonds.net/Magazine/Articl ... ssueID=148

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 Post subject: Re: "synthetic diamond scam"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:09 am 
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Obviously the natural diamond trade world is worried - more than worried, distressed.
My feeling is they try to struggle wildly with all the arguments they cand find.
Some of their arguments are questionable.
Since when is a natural diamond "a store of value" ?
Only since they have tried to make us believe so.
If they want transparency, they should start to be transparent with their customers that a natural diamond, with all its qualities, is everything but rare, that high prices are artificially sustained and that the whole business is founded on a giant dream.


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 Post subject: Re: "synthetic diamond scam"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:14 pm 
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Isi wrote:
Obviously the natural diamond trade world is worried - more than worried, distressed.
My feeling is they try to struggle wildly with all the arguments they cand find.
Some of their arguments are questionable.
Since when is a natural diamond "a store of value" ?
Only since they have tried to make us believe so.
If they want transparency, they should start to be transparent with their customers that a natural diamond, with all its qualities, is everything but rare, that high prices are artificially sustained and that the whole business is founded on a giant dream.
Those in the trade better hope that not too many people read the book Stoned by Aja Raden. The selling of desire and envy by delusion and imagined scarcity . DeBeers and guys like Armond Hammer found a way into our brains through a little spot called the ventromedial prefrontal cortex. Hammer made a fortune for himself and Russia laundering money through his U.S. companies. When he ran out of genuine Faberge items to sell, he sold fakes as real( he had the hallmark stamps). All the middle class wanted a little piece of royalty. The book made me feel a little dumb and a bit gullible, but I'm glad I read it. Good chapters on emeralds and pearls also.

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 Post subject: Re: "synthetic diamond scam"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:47 pm 
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Isi wrote:
Since when is a natural diamond "a store of value" ?


Gold and platinum are less rare and still a store of value. All it takes is for other people to want what you have and it becomes valuable. Cars, old stamps, water and a whole bunch of other stuff. Why not diamonds?
I don;t get the animosity towards diamonds. They are durable, pretty and are not recyclable so as natural stuff goes they are a constantly diminishing quantity that many people have a desire for. That desire is not caused by marketing, but by beauty. Marketing just helps it along.

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 Post subject: Re: "synthetic diamond scam"
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:16 am 
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Harry Oppenheimer himself said it :
“I think people buy diamonds out of vanity and they buy gold because they’re too stupid to think of any other monetary system which will work – and I think vanity is probably a more attractive motive than stupidity.”

@Nicky : I'll get this book !


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 Post subject: Re: "synthetic diamond scam"
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:39 am 
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Well over a year ago, in another gemcutters' forum, I made the prediction that, given the ease with which CVD diamonds can now be made in what is essentially an enhanced microwave oven, one might soon come to see diamonds being custom-grown to purchasers' individual specifications at Zale's and Walmart on a while-you-wait basis.

It seems that my prediction has been approximately born out. For if I'm not mistaken, a recent scandal entailed diamonds being custom grown to match pre-existing certificates. While that's not quite grown to match customer requirements in the retail store, it's near enough as makes scant difference, and chances are it won't be long before retail custom growing is indeed attempted.

Here's an interesting video as background. It's about quantum computing, for which the researcher needed to grow a specific sort of diamond substrate. Note how matter-of-factly he describes the process. Nothing special there at all. Common knowledge; anybody (properly equipped etc.) can do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb3gn5GsvRk#t=2163

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Hans Durstling
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Last edited by Hans Durstling on Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: "synthetic diamond scam"
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:02 pm 
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Damn! I just discovered that that video has now been made "private." It was not so before. I wonder why.

- Hans D

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 Post subject: Re: "synthetic diamond scam"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:17 pm 
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There is equipment available to distinguish natural from HPHT treated natural, HPHT synthetic of two types, and CVD synthetic. As a diamond cutter, I don't see much problem with this.

I do see a problem with what is happening to GIA diamond certificates: Last week my student showed me three rbc diamonds of similar size. All were graded triple X. I inspected one and could not dispute it was an excellent cut, but the other two were likely good cuts. Under 10X, several of the star facets did not meet, several top halves did not meet, the girdle went from medium to very thin on one stone, and the other stone had visible polishing lines on a number of pavilion facets. All these certs were from the GIA in New York, USA.
Besides the gross lack of photographic information on GIA certificates, there seems to be some blatant negligence or dishonesty in the grading process of those two particular diamonds.
This constitutes a serious threat to the credibility of GIA certed stones. If we cannot trust the GIA, then who can we trust to grade diamonds accurately?

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 Post subject: Re: "synthetic diamond scam"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:50 am 
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thomas.adamas wrote:
There is equipment available to distinguish natural from HPHT treated natural, HPHT synthetic of two types, and CVD synthetic. As a diamond cutter, I don't see much problem with this.


actually that was not was the article was about.


Quote:
I do see a problem with what is happening to GIA diamond certificates: Last week my student showed me three rbc diamonds of similar size. All were graded triple X. I inspected one and could not dispute it was an excellent cut, but the other two were likely good cuts. Under 10X, several of the star facets did not meet, several top halves did not meet, the girdle went from medium to very thin on one stone, and the other stone had visible polishing lines on a number of pavilion facets. All these certs were from the GIA in New York, USA.
Besides the gross lack of photographic information on GIA certificates, there seems to be some blatant negligence or dishonesty in the grading process of those two particular diamonds.
This constitutes a serious threat to the credibility of GIA certed stones. If we cannot trust the GIA, then who can we trust to grade diamonds accurately?


good piece of info. i am sure if that was posted in the appropriate section it would have been noticed more.... :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: "synthetic diamond scam"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:39 am 
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Might the stones not be those which originally matched the certs ?
If this happens with synthetics, it might happen too with natural stones, might it not ?
Maybe some people cut low-grade natural stones with size, weight and proportions similar to those of already issued certs for higher grade diamonds ?


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 Post subject: Re: "synthetic diamond scam"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:47 pm 
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Isi wrote:
Might the stones not be those which originally matched the certs ?
If this happens with synthetics, it might happen too with natural stones, might it not ?
Maybe some people cut low-grade natural stones with size, weight and proportions similar to those of already issued certs for higher grade diamonds ?


The stones had the same dimensions and the inclusion plots were accurate and were declared as natural.
The cutting grade of the stones was overrated on the GIA certs.

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 Post subject: Re: "synthetic diamond scam"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:10 pm 
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Alberto wrote:
thomas.adamas wrote:
There is equipment available to distinguish natural from HPHT treated natural, HPHT synthetic of two types, and CVD synthetic. As a diamond cutter, I don't see much problem with this.


actually that was not was the article was about.


The article was about synthetic diamond vs. natural diamond marketing paranoia and I don't care to respond to that. The same thing occurred with emerald, ruby, sapphire, alexandrite and opal. The imagined problems disappeared as authentication methods became commonplace and the markets reorganized.

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 Post subject: Re: "synthetic diamond scam"
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:02 am 
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thomas.adamas wrote:
The article was about synthetic diamond vs. natural diamond marketing paranoia and I don't care to respond to that.


THE thread is actually ABOUT that article, talking about something else in this TOPIC is useless at best and every comment which would be meaningful and worthwhile to read somewhere else, will not get the proper attention here.

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 Post subject: Re: "synthetic diamond scam"
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:38 pm 
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Alberto wrote:
thomas.adamas wrote:
The article was about synthetic diamond vs. natural diamond marketing paranoia and I don't care to respond to that.


THE thread is actually ABOUT that article, talking about something else in this TOPIC is useless at best and every comment which would be meaningful and worthwhile to read somewhere else, will not get the proper attention here.


I took your advice yesterday and started this:
viewtopic.php?f=85&t=22598
Feel free to contribute.

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 Post subject: Re: "synthetic diamond scam"
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 9:06 am 
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Strictly as a consumer, if I ever buy a diamond it would be a synthetic. I think that any effort to manipulate the consumer with anything, but the truth, is bound to fail. I personal see not any reason to pay a premium for a natural diamond over a synthetic when I can not see a difference either in beauty or durability. The small pieces of diamond the average Joe buys has never been rare or a good investment and that is not going to change. I do think that the industry is going to loose much more of their market than the colored gem business did, because of the use of diamonds to meet social obligations by people who do not give a hoot about gemstones, let alone diamonds. And they won't spend a penny more than they have to to meet their obligation. (Her friends will never know unless she tells them.)

Bruce


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